How do emotions and side hustles mix?

In this Side Hustle Spotlight episode, I'm interviewing, Joanne Kim who built a side hustle around helping people transform emotional challenges into strengths.

Learn about why it’s important to find community and get support and how Side Hustle Support Group helped here

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Full Show Notes (Transcript)…

Marissa: Hey Risers. Welcome back to another episode of Empathy Rising. We are here with our Side Hustle Students Spotlights because it is that time of year where one round of the program is finishing and students are graduating into alumni and ready to share their stories with those of you who are planning to come in for 2024.

So if that is resonating with you, if what you hear from our student spotlight today calls to you, you can absolutely go ahead and apply over at Marissalot.com/side-hustle. And our student spotlight today is focusing on Joanne Kim. So Joanne, if you could introduce yourself, please let us know a little bit about where you live, what you do clinically, and what you are building with your side hustle.

Joanne: Yeah, good to be here. My name is Joanne and I am in Silicon Valley. And, , I guess I found out that I'm a, , now a serial entrepreneur, so mm-hmm. I switched over my identity in doing side hustley things. , so I am clinically an Enneagram and brain swatting therapist. And, , I'm kind of expanding into providing more like coaching and consultation support for other therapists in private practice.

And , now venturing into the online course world and the common denominator for all three is tapping into my big dream of being a dream activator. Like I really love helping people connect with themselves and draw out their own true potential. And so those are the different arenas that I do that.

Marissa: I love that. , yeah, I, how, how has that identity shift been? Were you an entrepreneur? Did you identify as an entrepreneur before you identified as a therapist? Or did you identify as a therapist first and then grow into an entrepreneur? Were they?

Joanne: Well, I think if I like zoom out even further, like I kind of bounced around all kinds of different industries. Like I went to college as a mechanical engineer, graduated with political science and Asian studies, like I was a pastor at some point. Whoa.

Marissa: Yeah. I didn't know

Joanne: any of this stuff. Yeah. , and so I think what happened was when I got into therapy, therapy, therapy, therapy. Specifically in private practice happened to scratch that itch. Now I look back, I'm like, I was probably entrepreneurial, like for a long while. Yeah, because I knew from pretty early on, even as a pre-licensed therapist, I'm like, I'm probably not going to work well under anybody. They have too many ideas, and I want to experiment, and I want the creative freedom, and so I,

Marissa: I resonate with that because, you know, my undergrad's from the top 20 business school, and I was on this corporate track, and it never felt right, and , then, you know, it just so happened that we got stationed in Alaska where there was no corporate anything, you know, and so it was like, well, what do I want to do with myself?

And it's funny because I started seeing these ads for, . ICF, the coaching federation. And I was like, well, who would want, you know, a 22-year-old coach? Like no one's going to hire me as a coach. So then it's like, well, what's kind of like coaching, but then more legit in my mind then, you know, and an easy way to own your own business.

And therapy. So even when I started my master's, private practice was always my goal as well. It's like, it was a way to still have that business. , like you said, scratch that itch, that, that business ownership, but that wasn't corporate that allowed me to be heart-centered that allowed me to be in service.

Joanne: Yeah. I definitely identified as a one-on-one supporting professional. Yeah. I think the me being a business owner piece didn't come till later. I think that I just kind of stumbled into that and I was like, Oh, wait, this is actually kind of fun because it's like, you know, like some people build their cars in their garage and they can tinker on it for hours and like time just like zips on by.

And I think like, , my own business was kind of like my own art project. You know, I get to know myself more and I put myself out there and it stirs up all kinds of, you know, stuff inside of me. And , it's kind of how I interact with the world. I think it's just surprising. I never thought that I would be not just okay, but actually more excited about the financial aspects and the behind-the-scenes nuts and bolts stuff. It feels like a big game.

Marissa: Yeah, I love that. , okay. So you came to Side Hustle in a little bit of a different place than some other students. And the fact that you had been working on an online income stream before coming to Side Hustle.

So I'd love it if you could, you know, cast your memory back a year ago. And what was it like already having gone through a program? Having some mixed results with that and you can share whatever feels right for you to share on that, , and then deciding to go through another program, , and why Side Hustle and what caught your eye about it, all that stuff.

Joanne: I think a lot of it was just kind of venturing into the unknown. In a lot of ways, not that it's like a comparative race or anything, but experientially, where I was in my business and what I wanted to do was categorically very different from a lot of my peers, especially those who are more local. And so, I think it was in 2020 or 2021, during the pandemic, I was part of a year-long program that helped therapists build out the dream practice that they wanted. I think for me, I had already done that, but I wanted to use that arena as a place for me to branch out into the post or extra therapy, beyond the couch realm. And that was hard because it was self-directed. I knew I wanted to go in that direction, but it was hard to even know what questions to ask. Then I thought, Okay, this was helpful in many ways, but in some ways, I don't think I'm building the moment I need. So then I applied for a totally non-therapy online course building program. I learned a lot. That's how I did my first launch. But it was like drinking out of a fire hose. I had to outsource a lot, pay a lot of money, like hiring someone to build out my email funnel. And I didn't really understand how exactly it worked. So, I did my first launch, and it was good for someone who's brand new, never having done an online income stream before, but there were some aspects that didn't quite align with me. It was more values-oriented and demographic-oriented. We, as therapists, have a natural way of connecting with people through our hearts. This podcast is about empathy rising. There's a hand element to it. The course building program was like bros marketing to bros on how to market to bros. And it's just, in the identity sense, there were many areas where I could adjust, but I really wish I didn't have to try so hard to fit in. And that's where the personal identity piece also comes in. Being a female, low to mid SES growing up, Korean American, and a therapist who doesn't know much about business, or at least online business. So, that's how I got to Side Hustle. It was right after, about two weeks after I signed up for that other program, that I think you opened the doors for last year. I just missed the window. But I thought, Let's make the most out of it. Let me try learning things on my own. I learned a lot. It was a valuable experience that helped me make the most out of being in Side Hustle. Side Hustle covers a lot of ground. There were some months when I had more breathing room. I had already done branding and came up with an elevator pitch. A year ago, I was ready for you to open your doors. I thought, Let's do it. After my first launch, I was so burnt out. Mostly because I didn't know what was within the norm of what happens in a launch. I was doing everything by myself. I didn't know anyone else personally who was going beyond the typical therapy arrangement. I wanted more access to high-quality support and guidance from someone who combines business and the therapy or healing professional realm. And the other half was wanting to be among like-minded peers. People around me are supportive and caring, but they don't really get what goes into all the behind-the-scenes work. They just see what shows up on social media or the highlights. I would share with my spouse, like, Hey, I just got a sale. And he'd be like, That's great.

Marissa: I love what you're pointing out here. Typically, Side Hustle is designed to take someone who's never had any experience online all the way through. But I do attract students in your situation who have had some experience from another program. Usually, what I hear is, I went through this other program, and they didn't get what my license required. They were telling me to market like this or try that, but I was saying I can't do that. They couldn't understand why that worked or didn't work. I hear a bit of that from you, but what I also hear from you is the environment, the values of the people in that program, were not aligned like they are when you're in a room full of therapists. All of you have this yearning for something more. Maybe it's more time freedom, maybe it's more financial freedom, but for many of you, this time around, it was more creative freedom, wanting to try something new and step into a new identity. And it seems like it was a combination of both for you.

Joanne: Yeah, I think it's... I don't know if it's me learning about my kind of marketing and my way of building my audience, like I am the long game gal. So even with the other business, when we're wanting people to come on board as part of our collective, I'm not like, Hey, I'm meeting you for the first time and like, do you want to join? That's not my style. I'm usually like, Hey, tell me what you're interested in. And I kind of see, get to know them, see what they need, and then align with them. And maybe, you know, they feel safe enough, and they know that I'm pretty consistent throughout the year, that they would voluntarily opt in.

Marissa: Right, right. It's a calling in rather than a force thing. That's the word that's good. Yeah, it's like...

Joanne: ...invitation versus dragging someone into the party.

Marissa: Yeah, yeah. I like that because that's what we kind of talked about when we get into phase 3, which we'll go through the phases shortly. But the difference between inviting and convincing, right? And we're about inviting people in. We do a lot of work ahead of time to make sure the right people are in the right place at the right time. But even when it's an enrollment, it's about an invitation rather than a convincing one. So, okay, so you decide to come into Side Hustle, even though you've taken programs before. There's something about the draw of being with fellow clinicians, being in a more heart-centered space. And then we get into the different phases. Phase 1, I remember our call last year, kind of telling you, You know, Phase 1 is going to feel like a little bit of a repeat for you because you have done the work, but it's a chance to kind of double check. To refine, to see if being in this room full of therapists is bringing out a different flavor that wasn't necessarily in the other program. So Phase 1 was one of those phases that was a little bit easier for you. And that is where we do, like you were saying, the offer conceptualization and offer validation. We build the funnel. So can you talk a little bit about that since you already had a little experience?

Joanne: , basically, of those three months – right – validation and then branding and then building the funnel, basically month two is what I kind of glossed over. Yeah. , cause that part was already done. So I spent a lot more time in validation interviews because that's one of the things that I didn't do the first time I did my launch. You know, I think it's kind of a habit for creative entrepreneurs that they're like, Oh, I just want to get my idea out there. And then they find out that it falls flat because they skip the scary, but super essential process of checking to see what the audience is meeting. Yeah. And so I knew that I was going to have a hard time with that in the very beginning, but I'm glad that I did it because now on the other side of it in, , because I have an email list for my therapy practice, that just even sending out an invitation saying, Hey, is anyone interested? I think I did like a swap, like, Can we trade 30 minutes where half the time, I ask you a little bit about my idea, my offer idea, and then the other half, I'll provide one-on-one coaching or something. I don't know if it was the coaching piece, but a lot of people responded that I had to cap it. And so I think even that was surprising. And , like I have all this head trash about myself, like, No one's going to be interested, or This is not going to work out, and just opening myself up to let other people speak for themselves and then take that at face value. Even if I might not agree with it. And so part of that was important for the program I'm building, but part of it also was a personal inner transformation piece for myself. And that was what kept happening throughout the whole year, basically at different points. So first was just crafting together my idea based on my past launch's experience, then just taking feedback, , and then trying to incorporate that, asking questions back and forth. And I think that was also what started building that brand identity, how people experience me, not with the therapy hat, but now with this other business. Mm-hmm.

Marissa: No, I love that. As a creative entrepreneur, Mm-hmm. I love that because this is something we talk about in the course, too. There's a difference between things being conceptual and things being applied, right? And d, just based on those two words. But when you're like, Oh, my brand is heartwarming. My brand is uplifting. My brand is encouraging, it's one thing to have that in concept, but how are you conveying that? How are you actually putting that out there and applying that? And that's that kind of bridge that you were able to do by doing more and more of these interviews. You were able to experience what it's like to be those brand characteristics that you had written on the paper and done on the worksheets. Yeah.

Joanne: Like, I just got feedback yesterday from one of my clients who watched my event, my hype event replay. And they're saying, Yeah, it's so surprising to see you share so openly and vulnerably. And it's like, Yeah, I feel okay with sharing those things by now. I've done a lot of my processing, but it's like, oh yeah, there is a difference in what therapy clients experience with us because of things like self-disclosure and, you know, power differentials, things like that.

And it's been cool to, you know, have the ability to show up however which way we will. I did a lot of cussing during the event. I said, you know, disclaimer up front, but that's actually also how I blog for this new program. And so that's been pretty cool to see people interacting with this version of me, or this part of what I'm super interested in.

I love that. So, yeah, validation month one. I'm glad I spent more time there. Because I think that's what helps me really have the energy and the drive to continue through the other months in more of the technical stuff. For some parts are, you know, drudgery. It's just, you know, dry and it's just like things you gotta do, and once it's done, then it's done.

Like you can kind of move on, but.

Marissa: And so, one thing you mentioned about the other program was, they were encouraging you to outsource a lot of things and have things built for you, which makes sense from a time-saving capacity. But you, you also said, I didn't really learn how to do it. So that's one of the things that we do in Side Hustle is I do tell you, how and when and where to outsource if you choose, but I don't want to be an enabler for you. I don't know if that word is the right word, but I don't want you to feel that if something in your funnel breaks, you have to then hire somebody to go fix it or whatever.

Joanne: I think I probably spent three or four grand just with the email marketing firm because I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to break something if I try to fix it myself.

Marissa: Right. And so we're kind of coming at it from the opposite, right? The sweat equity kind of angle in Side Hustle. Yeah. Does that mean you're putting more time and effort into yourself? Yes. But it also means that you are learning it. And if you do then choose to outsource it, you know how to a) teach that person what you want and b) in case that person flakes on you or whatever, you aren't like S.O.L. Right. So how was that experience actually kind of taking ownership of a part that you had outsourced?

Joanne: I felt much better because I think the firm did great, but there's like the demon with outsourcing is that sometimes it's like when you provide instructions, they follow that literally. Or, oh, too much. They follow that literally and then you realize like, Oh, I wasn't specific enough. And it's just kind of, there's some things that I will still outsource. And there are some things where as a business owner, I prefer to have more direct influence over it. Like I think probably email marketing, that's something that I will just do myself for peace of mind. Because I think a lot of the anxiety came from having outsourced something that I really needed close to the vest. So that's also a learning experience, but in terms of building the funnel, I had some idea of how things worked from the first launch. And it was really good to see, to have you walk us through step by step as to why things are done in a certain sequence, how to even organize things so that it makes it easier for us in the long run. I'm looking forward to learning about the metrics, how to interpret them, after the whole launch cycle. It was very empowering because it's like, Oh, this is just random data that makes my eyes glaze over, these actually have a lot of rich information and guidance for our future decisions.

Marissa: Oh, I love that. Okay, so you spend time in validation, you get the funnel built, you kind of took that back under your wing, and then we move into marketing. And earlier you said, I realized how to build the audience the way I wanted to build the audience. So I imagine in the bro program, there were a lot of, You have to do it this way, or, These are, this is where I tend to feel that values rub. From most of my students who've taken courses that are not necessarily put by therapists or heart-centered entrepreneurs. So what was it like stepping into phase two, which was the marketing phase?

Joanne: Yeah, I think that was like visibility, relationship, and content marketing. Mm-hmm. I did all three. But that's partially because I already had a head start with content marketing from whatever used to be on my therapy website. I basically literally copy-pasted and then turned it off on my therapy. And now it lives in my emotions realm. And I had, because I already had more of an experience with coming up with ideas for blogs, how to write them, how to put them on the website, and how to work the back end. That part is very valuable to have had that experience coming in.

It was a little bit of a transition because you provided a specific way of doing things for the sake of getting the most use value out of it, right? Getting a lot of mileage, like having a template of how to write a blog. And then from that derive social media content, your email newsletter content, all that stuff. And so it was a little bit of a switch for me because what I used to do for my therapy practice was I have an idea. I record a video and then I send that off to my VA to transcribe it and then she's the one who puts the blog together and then the email newsletter goes later. Trying this approach is like, Oh, okay.

It was good to see how the different branches, one being the blog and the website and the other one being the social media aspect, kind of harmonized together because in my therapy realm, it was a bit more disjointed. Yeah. I am through and through a teacher, and I use a lot of visuals and graphics. And so there was gonna be no way around that, but content marketing will be a huge part of the way that I show up. Visibility marketing in terms of getting in front of a larger audience through interviews, I also had some experience doing that too, but this time I was trying to sync it up with my launch calendar. Some parts, I kind of overdid it. And so I signed up for too many things and they all landed during my launch month. But it was good to see how podcast hosts or other larger platforms interacted with my newer brand identity as a feelings translator. And so that was also like validation interviewee kind of stuff and super fun, easy to do podcast interviews like this one. It's more of a conversation that's one-on-one. And that I will continue doing so. I think the next growth edge is pitching to someone that I have zero touchpoints with. That part I skipped because I'm like, I don't have enough time for this bit. I'm already split too many ways. So I think next year, I will probably do a little bit more digging into that for scaling purposes.

Marissa: Yeah. 'Cause we teach this in a couple of different ways, like the rabbit hole strategy of going down and finding just all kinds of people, but then also the spider web strategy, starting with people you know, and then asking for the introduction. The warmer pitches, the warmer introductions are easier to make. And you had quite a network. 'Cause I know you did a couple of bigger appearances, but you got to them through people that you knew.

Joanne: Yeah, so I already had some practice doing the spider web approach and it's just one of those things that it gets easier the more you do it. You just gotta start, you know? And so I'm like, this is just like, you know, I gotta put in my startup phase effort. And I think the big thing that I've noticed within myself is like, even with the other students, is that some people have a vision, the scale of their vision is one where they know that they're going to really build into this slow and steady for the long haul. And then there's some people who are like, I want to see some immediate results. And neither is inherently good or bad, but because the internal timeline is different, that informs how we engage with the new things that we're learning. So for me, I knew that this is probably going to become my main hustle at some point. And so it felt more endurable. It was easier for me to put in the labor. Like I hired someone to do Pinterest marketing. I'm not going to see the turnaround for that for at least another year. But because I know that this is going to be my bigger thing that overshadows my therapy practice, I can really lean into this from that angle instead of putting so much of my heart on, Is this thing working? Yes or no?

Marissa: I love the idea of having a longer-term vision, right? We can get you to the point where you're making money within a year, but to scale and to grow, that takes a longer-term vision. And so I love that you had that outlook, especially around building the audience and having just a little bit more patience and trust, like this is coming, it doesn't need to be here tomorrow, it will be here.

Joanne: So, for this round, visibility marketing was like, Let me just tap into my existing network and then see if there's like one extra degree of separation, like that branch a little bit like that. But part of it was, I needed a website for this separate thing. I needed an online presence. I needed enough movement to be, I don't know, eligible to step into a different tier or different realm of maybe a different scale of visibility platforms. So, yeah, the relationship marketing piece... I think that's just something that I've naturally done, like getting coffee chats. I probably do that too much. It eats all my time. But I think it's the... that was super easy because that is my brand. That's how I even want to show up for people in my program.

Marissa: Yeah. So really able to take a strengths-based approach to this marketing plan. Like, What works for me? What do I enjoy? What can I do authentically? What can I do consistently? And how can I utilize that to build this audience into marketing? So, it doesn't have to be so scary or so out of the comfort zone. Of course, you're going to grow, but it doesn't have to be something that you hate or don't want to touch with a 10-foot pole. It can be things that you already...

Joanne: Enjoy. Yeah. It's such a huge difference between my first and second launch. Like, I'm in the middle of my launch week right now. Doors closing tomorrow, but yeah, it's the difference in my center of gravity. Before, I was just like, Oh, I need to hurry up and make things work. And I'm putting myself into all these podcast interviews and things like that. And watching the numbers very closely, like, Is this going to work out? Yes or no? And then it's a lot of frenetic energy. And then this time around, it's like, It's gonna pay off, when? I don't know, right? But let me just be more open to taking things as they come. And I have no idea where things are gonna lead. And it's a lot more chill and a lot more even-paced. I am busy because there's a lot of work to be done, but my internal pacing is a lot steadier.

Marissa: I love that. It just keeps coming through for me, like a trust, a self-trust, and This is the next step. This is the next...

Joanne: Step. Yeah. And part of it, honestly, was because I was part of Side Hustle and, you know, months two or three, I'm like, I'm sure there's going to be a crap ton of things to learn, and there's a dedicated month for it. So, I don't need to deal with the later stuff right now. I will eventually get to it. And that also took the pressure off. Let me just be fully present for whatever is for this month. And there will be some things that I will just skip this year. That's the roadmap. That also took a lot of the pressure off compared to my first launch, where I was just like, I don't know. I feel like I need things. I don't know what I need. I don't know how to get that. I don't know what I'm doing. And even if things were going well, it was always like, What's going to break? Is this sustainable? Is this just a fluke? Or is this the real deal?

Marissa: Yeah. That word sustainable that you just brought in is really important to me because, speaking of, you're right in the middle of your launch. We'll start talking about phase three. I want this to be something that is replicable for you. So, from launch one to launch two, we do some analysis. What worked well? What can be improved? And then launch two, it's not just rinse and repeat, but it's refine, rinse, and repeat, right? So, it's always getting better, but that base work, right? I love how you brought in the idea of working on your car in a garage earlier because that's how I see it. You can get this brand new car from the dealership, or you can build this car in your garage. It still needs gas, and it still needs oil changes. What we're doing here inside the hustle is building the engine and then turning it on for the very first time, basically getting it to run for the very first time. And then, you have the skills and the ability to keep that engine running. And so, sustainability, that's really a core value of mine and of the program.

Joanne: Yeah. I mean, we'll just run with the metaphor. Like, if you don't know what different parts are in your car, and some check engine light comes on, you take it to the shop, they're going to give you an exorbitant amount. Right? They're gonna list that price, and then there's gonna be sticker shock. But then, what do you do? You can't not fix it. Right? So you just pay all this money without having any extra clarity as to what the thing that they replaced was. And it's just like, there's a lot of helplessness and sometimes exploitation that happens because we've overly outsourced or overly kicked out that responsibility of really taking ownership of our own stuff.

Marissa: And, and I think there's been irresponsibility in the online industry. Like, I can get you to 10k months in 90 days or whatever, like make your first five-figure launch in six months. And it's like, ah, can those things happen? Yes. They're few and far between. Right. And so I think that there's been some irresponsibility of other coaches as well to make this seem easier than it is, or like, yeah, put out this money, but you're going to... pop out three times the return on the other end. And it doesn't necessarily work

Joanne: That way. I mean, even for people who advertise that, it's like, I don't even want to imagine the liability, right? Right. It's like, what are you going to get in the long run by pissing off all these people? Because do you like to shank them with their money? Like, I don't know.

Marissa: I don't know. There's one coach who actually has a class action filed against her. And I don't even want to know because basically the way I see it is they're like, get in, make as much money as possible and then get out. And they're just going to, they're just going to pop smoke and disappear. That's kind of their plan, I guess. And then no one can find them, but people found this one and it just. Yeah. It's scary what can happen. And so kind of circling back, like bringing it back to sustainability, we're getting you to the point where you are building the machine for the first time and turning it on for the first time, understanding how that machine works because you built it and having a level of familiarity and intimacy with it because it's yours, right? I think that that's

Joanne: really. Yeah. I mean, I do hope that at some point that there will come a time where I can outsource even email marketing. Yeah, yeah. You know, , but that's because it's running so smoothly because I make sure that the different pieces are talking well with each other so that I can kind of release it and let someone

Marissa: come in. I outsourced all my funnel building now, but I'm still the one who writes every email to my audience. It's just near and dear to me. I want that piece to be mine, but I don't have to be the one who builds the funnel

Joanne: anymore. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to replicate your own voice, your style.

Marissa: So let's shift into phase three and talk a little bit about, cause you are, you are in open cart right now and you have a previous launch to compare this to. So I'd love to get your thoughts on how phase three was for you, which is really teaching you how to enroll students or clients or whatever type of program you're running.

Joanne: Yeah, so let's see , phase three, was that started in July, August?

Marissa: August. August, well, September, October, yeah, August, September, October.

Joanne: Yeah, because I know that like, , the email funnel started mid-June. Yeah, that's when you turned your funnel on. Right. , and so I've been keeping a pretty steady pace, like every week there's like a new blog and, you know, new content coming out, sometimes just recycling old content because may as well. Yeah. , and , yeah, like, I, this time what was different. The launch was that I was going to hold a live event, a live webinar for the general public, for them to get some value out of just showing up. And then at the end is when I announce and invite people into my actual full-on big program. , and so that was really fun in kind of finding ways, like small bite-sized ways of doing the bigger thing. So, like, my online program is about, it's basically a school for feelings because oftentimes when people learn about emotions, it's like, why didn't I ever learn this in school? I wanted to fill that gap. So, I built a school and , focusing on, like, five big emotions and so I decided to have this live event be centered around one of the five. , and it was really fun in that there was kind of a hype-building, buzz-building, anticipatory, like excitement to it. And that , I, I picked a topic that seemed to hit a nerve for a lot of people because a lot of people were engaging with it. So I'm like, okay, cool. Again, validation interview, right? Like a lot of engagement on social media and. Also with the people that I was sharing with, you know , word of mouth. And I think that was extra helpful and empowering because it's like, okay, like the first time I did this launch, I didn't know what the crap I was doing. I intuitively knew that this is what I wanted to do, what the direction I wanted to take. But like, I'm really hitting on something here, like because partially there's more momentum. For some people, this is the second time or the third time they're hearing that I have this program. Yeah. No, , like the first time they heard about it was back in 2021. And like now they've known and seen me from different angles over a long period of time. The know-like-and-trust factor was probably higher. , and, , yeah, it took a lot of work to put together the event, partially because I've never done a live event. Before a lot of it was learning the technical stuff like I finally figured out how to sync up the music into a Zoom live call. So that was like one of my biggest wins.

Marissa: Yay, tech stuff!

Joanne: And it's just like one of those things where once you know it, you know it and you don't have to learn it ever again. Yeah. But, yeah, there are a lot of, like, moments. I was learning things at warp speed, where I'm pretty sure I was running around like a headless chicken in some parts of it , because things were more time-sensitive. Yeah, I opted to do a full-on launch cycle while I was in the side hustle so that I can milk it this way.

Marissa: Yeah, the idea is that students are launching in real time right now, like, as we're recording in mid-October. And I'd say in typical rounds, it's like a third is launching and then a third is waiting and then a third is kind of still building things out because life happens and the timeframe, you know, that's one of the things we talked about in the very first week is like, everybody gets on their own timeline, right? And so it is really designed to help you launch within the program. That way, you can have the most support for me. You can also have the most support from our staff, which is our graphic designer and our copywriter. , and you chose to go ahead and do it live, which means this fall was a bit of a hustle for you.

Joanne: Yeah. I mean, I think when I was planning the timing of things, I probably did it, , well I didn't, there's some things that I didn't know, so I ended up launching like a week ahead of schedule. Yeah. That's okay. And so some things I like, , I feel like I should learn that, but I'll figure it out later.

Marissa: We have lifetime access. You can come back, you can come back and watch anything, anytime. Yeah.

Joanne: , and so like, it was really good because, because of the time pressure, I'm like, I don't even have time to worry about certain things. I just need to keep going. Yeah. , and so I think that was actually to my advantage because I generally tend to obsess over details forever. Yeah. And , spend a lot of energy that way. So, do

Marissa: you mind getting into numbers? Do you want to say what size audience you built over the summer? If you remember off the top of your head, how many were on your waitlist?

Joanne: Yeah. , so to give you context, in my therapy realm, I have an email list there, and I think it was hovering around 1400-1500 people. On Instagram, it was like 1400 people, probably some overlap. But I wasn't starting cold, right. But with this new funnel that got turned on in June, , now I think I have like 460 people on my email list. , and 15 people who joined as the waitlist. So a lot of them are people who got my freebie opt-in and then at the end of the seven-day email series, they pressed the I want to join the waitlist button. Right. And then some people who joined the waitlist through blogs and things like

Marissa: that. And there were two sales that came from the 15. Which

Joanne: It was pretty cool. They signed up within the first hour. Yeah, yeah. And so, like, those people actually didn't even see the rest of my email sequence.

Marissa: Yeah, they were just ready. That's a 13 percent conversion rate on your waitlist. So, that's incredible.

Joanne: Actually, it used to be 16 percent because some people joined the waitlist, somehow, after the fact. Oh! They joined, like, mid-week. So that was pretty cool. These are then people I've never met before, you know, never recognized them. And so that meant that the regular weekly normal blog content was probably what sold them. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy,

Marissa: Which is great. Like your content connects; your content itself converts.

Joanne: Yeah. But compared to the weekly newsletters I was doing for my therapy practice, where I'm like, Oh crap, I gotta figure out what to write this week. Yeah, this time it's like, I know what the end goal is. The end goal is launch. Yeah. And so then, right, how do I work backward so that even the regular content that I create has a clear path towards the end goal? That makes it a whole lot easier because I don't have to wonder. I don't have to think about how I am going to convince people to, like, finally join the program in only a couple weeks' window. , so even like, even the doors closing tomorrow, like starting next week until the next time I launch, like all of that is still launching. Just kind of in a low-grade way. Yeah.

Marissa: Yeah. , one of the things that we talk about a lot, especially getting into phase three, is like the energy management of it all and the emotional management of it all. And you've been really sharing a lot because you're one of the ones who is launching in real time. And you've been sharing with the other students who are planning to launch in the new year or towards more Christmas time. And just about kind of the anxiety. And I think it's really been generous of you to share those with the students. It's hard to sometimes be the groundbreaker or the trailblazer, like the one who's going first, but it's usually how it is for me.

Yeah, it's been really sweet as somebody who's witnessing this , of your willingness to share. Right. Your willingness to give and pour into our community because you're like, Oh, I figured that out last year. Here's how this works, or whatever. Because you have gone ahead a little bit, and that's what I love about creating group programs: you have the people who have the strengths or the experience here, or you have the people who have the strengths or experience there, and it becomes the ability to share. Right. So that we're all resourced really well, which is really something that I've enjoyed just watching you and getting to know you.

So, three sales so far, the cart is still open, more sales to come, a successful launch, a successful experience inside Hustle. Why don't you let us know what it is that you built? Like, what is this program?

Joanne: Yeah, , so I would now call myself a feelings translator who helps highly sensitive people, women, anyone who tends to be very compassionate and empathetic. Like, , transform their biggest feelings into the greatest superpower in that our emotions aren't just things to tolerate. Aren't just things to kind of figure out how to get around, but they actually hold the power to create and activate our dream life. So that's my dream activator that comes back on.

Marissa: And so, what's the program that you've created? And how is that coming through this identity you're stepping into? How is that coming through in this program?

Joanne: Yeah, so part of it, I mean, honestly, it's kind of like the feelings version of side hustle in that there is an online course room where there's videos and exercises that people can go through actually on their own time. So even though I announced it as a live six-month group coaching program, it's not a cohort system. It's kind of, it's not open enrollment either, but it's intended for people to get the support that they need according to what they need in each moment of their life because our needs change over time. And so, instead of having high pressure for people to finish everything within a certain window of time, it's like, Hey, come in. Choose your adventure. Some people are team rabbit, where they want to just get a cursory glance at everything before they dive deeper. Other people are team tortoise, where they want to go through things in a more methodical manner. In my audience, there's both of those people. And so it's like, can people come in and, you know, engage with the content how it works best for them. And then I make myself available , through six months of the year, January to June, with two live calls: one of which is general Q and A so that people can kind of do some troubleshooting if they're feeling stuck or overwhelmed, discouraged. And then one topical call where I describe how emotions show up in our personal life, our relationships, and our professional development. That's kind of like the electives in a school.

Marissa: Oh, I love that concept.

Joanne: Oh, cool. Yeah. So this is the first time I'm doing the live window because my first launch was meant to be kind of an evergreen course, DIY, self-study, all that stuff.

Marissa: But you found through your validation that people wanted the touch. People wanted the ability to have touchpoints with you.

Joanne: And so I had students who enrolled before who, like, I kind of checked the behind-the-scenes measures. And it's like, they kind of dropped off and they haven't quite finished. So I'm like, okay, there needs to be something more or something else. , because I want people to actually derive the value in what they're investing into.

Marissa: Yeah. So, when people have walked this journey with you for six months, where do they arrive at the other end?

Joanne: On the other end, it kind of depends on what they're needing in that season and like how far in the program that they've gotten to. Like some people, they just need to figure out how to not be in such a chaotic place with my feelings. Great. Wow. So those folks might just kind of hang around the first three or four modules. Mm-hmm. And some people are like, You know, I've done a lot of therapy. Like I've done a lot of personal work. I've gone through the steps, but now I want something more. Hmm. Like, now I wanna figure out, how can I actually create a life that really works for me instead of just doing damage control? Yeah. And so, there's enough room for both groups of people, , which is kind of what I saw in the therapy space as well. Like, there's some people who come in, houses are on fire. They just want to get in and get out. Once the house is fixed, it's all done. And then there's some people like, I want to do a lot of self-exploration and really know what trajectory I'm taking.

Marissa: So anybody who's on an emotional journey, anybody who is highly sensitive, , and wants support can come and get the support that they need in the capacity that they need it from you.

Joanne: So flexibility, I mean, in Silicon Valley, people are busy, you know. Like a lot of people are, let's say like parents, time is one of the most limited and valuable resources. And so I wanted to build a program that's compact. So things are simple. They're not easy, they're simple, and we cover a lot of ground in a very step-by-step way, and so it's compact yet comprehensive. It has the versatility to meet people where they are, taking the pressure off.

Marissa: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Joanne, thank you so much for being here, sharing your journey. , and giving another lens to this because some people are like, Well, I'm not brand new, but I'm still not where I want to be with my side hustle. Does this support group still serve me? And I think it does.

Joanne: Absolutely. I mean, honestly, like, , side hustle is not inexpensive, but I think it's only a fraction of what I paid outside of it trying to do things by myself. So I'm like, Oh, easy.

Marissa: Yeah. So if somebody was listening and considering side hustle for 2024, do you have any advice for them? Or do you have any kind of words of wisdom for them?

Joanne: Definitely do the space holder program. So I don't know if I'm familiarizing audiences with that, but it's like a pre-module.

Marissa: And you get it free when you enroll in Side Hustle. You get Space Holder for free.

Joanne: Yeah. , so for like October, November, December, as the year's coming to a close, you're probably doing a lot of visioning, reflecting on the past year, what you want to imagine for the new year. Like that's the space to do a lot of that work. Because in the same way that I spent a lot of time in the validation interview phase. This is kind of where you're doing the self-validation, like What really matters to me? And the more you do that work outside before side hustle begins, the easier it'll be when the course room opens.

Marissa: I love that. Cool. Super practical. Okay. So Joanne, people who are listening, I know are identifying as HSPs, as empaths. Where do they go to find out more about turning their feelings into their superpowers?

Joanne: Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram, Intelligent Emotions, or my website, intelligentemotions.com. , those are the two main arenas. I'm pretty active on social media, so like, you know, shoot me a message and let's talk. , and like in the same way, I want to connect with people who are in different phases of their own journey with feelings. I have what's called the Big Feelers First Aid Kit for people who are struggling with feelings that show up at the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong ways. It's a quick, easy PDF guide. , and then, you know, for people who are interested in doing more direct work with me, I will be opening up the waitlist again for my big program and that will be at intelligentemotions.com/waitlist.

Marissa: Awesome. And then what's the link for the first aid kit?

Joanne: Intelligentemotions.com/firstaidkit.

Marissa: Okay. Perfect. Easy. Intelligent emotions. Just remember that. And then you'll find everything that Joanne has to offer. Well, it has been a pleasure working with you this year. And I am so grateful for you coming on, sharing your story, sharing your journey, what was hard, what was fun, what was a win, what was the challenge, all this stuff. So I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. I really love that Joanne came on and shared her journey with us. , like I mentioned in the episode, Side Hustle is designed to take you from ground zero. So even if you are listening to Joanne and you're like, Oh my God, I don't have that experience. That's okay. Side Hustle is designed for you. And if you do have some experience, if you've taken other programs, or even if you've been learning from my podcast or other people's podcasts for free and have been taking some steps, but you are ready now for that system and that sustainability, then side hustle can still serve you. So I would love, love, love to have you apply. Our 2024 cohort is filling out and it is shaping up to be a really lovely group of people that I'm so excited to work with. So if you are called, please head over to MarissaLawton.com/side-hustle to apply. From there, we'll hop on a call, make sure that all your questions are answered and you feel like side hustle is the right fit for you. And then if you decide to join us, like we said in the episode, you get Space Holder for free and you get to go through that. We'll be having a meeting for that in December where you'll get to chat with me and make sure that you have everything really fleshed out. And then side hustle starts in January. So I would love to have you apply. Again, that link is MarissaLawton.com/side-hustle. All right. Until next time, keep on rising.