Quarter 2 Biz Bestie Chat with Lee Chaix McDonough

This year, we’re levelling up.

Every quarter, Lee Chaix McDonough and I chat about what went well, what we could have done differently, and what we’re working on next quarter (and beyond).

For us, 2022 is about expansion on every level.

We’re just two biz besties expanding our businesses and finding flow as we continue to grow as people AND business owners.

Wanna know exactly what that looks like for us? Tune into the latest podcast episode for another in-depth biz bestie chat and find out.

CLICK BELOW TO LISTEN!

Show Notes:

Hey, Risers. Welcome to episode 159 of the Empathy Rising podcast. I'm back with my Q2 biz bestie chat with one of my best friends, Lee Chaix Mcdonough. She runs the Coach with Clarity Collective as well as has so many different programs that are designed to help you transition from being a therapist to being a coach.

So if you know that one-on-one work and coaching is really what you want to lean into, I definitely recommend checking out Lee's work. You can head over to coachwithclarity.com and find out all about her programs there. She also mentions a quiz at the end of the episode, coachingquiz.com—how lucky was she to get that frickin URL? But you can definitely head over and check out that quiz. 

We dive right in here because we're BFFs. So we just are chit-chatting, like we would any other day. So hopefully this is fun for you to listen to. You'll hear a little bit about our business goals, but also what's going on with us personally a little bit too. And I think that's always fun to get to know the person behind the business that you might be following along with. So here we go. I'm going to jump into my... I won't even call it an interview, I'll call it a chit-chat with Lee.

Marissa (M): Hey Risers. Oh, I'm so excited! We're back for Q2 biz bestie chat. So, hey, best friend. 

Lee (L): Hello Hello! How are you? 

M: Good. How are you? I've missed you so much. We chatted for a second, and then I was like let's just hit record so we could get some of our catch-up. But, um, you've been busy!

L: I have. My calendar has been very full for the last few months, which is a wonderful problem to have. And it's taught me a lot about energy management. That has been kind of the theme for me the last few weeks. 

M: You've been doing lots of business stuff, but you've been doing lots of personal stuff too. 

L: Yes, and a little bit of them combined as well. So quarter one was all about launching, or relaunching the Coach with Clarity Collective, and then April and May has been lots of travel, which is lovely. I mean, travel fills my soul. I love it. But it's also exhausting, especially learning how to travel in this COVID world that we have. 

But, yeah, so it's been wonderful, but it's also required a lot from me, physically, emotionally, energetically. And so it's probably not surprising I got a little sick two weeks ago. I'm feeling much better now, but my throat and voice are not quite 100% yet. So we're getting there. 

M: Yeah. Well, if you need to take a pause or anything while we're chatting, just let me know.

L: I've got my water. How about you? You have been, like, really going on all cylinders too?

M: Yeah. So it's like, I wouldn't say that, but other people are saying that. Like, I don't feel like I've been, like, really to the grind. In fact, I'm like: Ugh, there's so much that I still have to do. I don't want to gross you out, and it's not as bad as it was, but I slammed my finger in the door while I was picking up the girls, at school, of course, the pickup line. And I shut my finger in the door and I'm like... I was making, like, noises I haven't made since I gave birth. 

And my kids are like... at first they were like, oh my God, mom. And then they were just kind of watching me. I don't know if they were freaked out a little bit, but I was like, literally trying to, like, move the pain. I was like, literally making grunting noises. But I was so lucky because Josh was home. He just happened to get out early that day and be home. 

Cause we were in the pickup line, and this line of cars drives and then my line. The line I'm in drives and I drove like five feet, and then had blurry vision. So I had just drove into a parking spot and just sat there. And Josh came up, we live about 10-15 minutes, depending on traffic, from the school. So Josh came up and got the girls in his car. He kinda, like, dressed my wound, and then they got to ride with him and he followed me back to make sure I was okay. 

But I say this because I had, the very next day, I had the plan to do two things: To go and get my nails done, and two, after that, to spend the whole day typing something for Rooted. And so I haven't been able to do either of those things. I can get my toes done, but like, what's the point if you're not going to get it all done at the same time, I don't want two trips. And I couldn't type, and I know I could talk to text on Google Docs or something like that, but it's not the same mental process for me. It's just not. So I kinda got like a week off, but at the same time, it was a week I had planned to be doing stuff. So, you know, when you don't rest? 

L: No kidding. You know, they're like, you know, we've been, we've been suggesting this, we've been giving little hints. If you're not listening, we're literally going to slam a car door on your finger and make you listen.

M: I don't even know how it happened. Like, I didn't do anything differently than I normally do it. Wasn't like I was distracted. It just was like... it just happened. And then I almost feel like I was out of my body because I was like, what's going on? Oh, your hand is stuck in the door. Oh, you should probably open the door now. And so I, like, literally felt myself go like this and open the door so my hand could come out. It was like a total, what's that called... disassociation. Like, yes. 

L: Yes. And then the pain sets in. 

M: And then I almost passed out. So you get a little sick, a little under the weather. I slammed my finger in the door. Both of us are getting the message to rest a little. 

L: Yes. Yes. And in fact, I think I sent an email out to my list last week about rest being the four-letter word that I needed the most. And it's true because if we are not fully rested, we're just not able to pour into our people, whether that's our business, our clients, our family, our friends. Rest is vital, and that was my lesson from April into May. And it's forced me to really look at the ways that I'm prioritizing or not prioritizing rest in my life. That's definitely been kind of top of mind for me these last few weeks. 

M: Yeah. So let's kind of sum up like Q1 do like a summary and share some things like wins, you know, learning points or whatever. And then we can talk about, like, where we're going in Q2. We're kind of in the middle of Q2, so we can kind of like, you know, sum that up as well. But because you were hitting it hard in quarter one, I remember, you know, we usually Vox at least... maybe not every day, but almost every day. And there were three weeks where it was like, I hadn't heard from you. And I was like, just checking in to see how you're doing. 

L: Yeah, that was launch mode. I went dark on Voxer. Yeah, no quarter one was all about the launch of the Coach with Clarity Collective, which is my membership program for life/business health coaches. It also happens to be a continuing education program that's accredited by the International Coaching Federation. So it's also a CE-style program. I was super excited because this was my first launch with this new unlimited access model. So instead of getting tied into monthly or annual payments, it's like, nope, it's one rate you join, and then you're in for life. 

M: Talk to me a little bit about why you made... like how it changed. What it was before, what it is now, and why did you make this decision to change? And then how is the first launch of the different program, how did that turn out, and all that? 

L: Yes. So I had been thinking about trialing an unlimited access model for about six months prior to actually doing it. 

M: Was it an accessibility reason or delivery reason? What were you thinking?

L: There were multiple factors. Number one, for those of you who run memberships, you know, retention and churn rates are a big deal. And so it's one thing to bring people into your membership. It's quite another to keep them—to make them happy and make them feel like, yep, I want to pay this membership fee again this month or this quarter or this year. 

And so retention and churn rates were always something that I was spending a lot of time and energy on. And then I was looking at, okay, how long are people staying in the membership on average, whether they are a quarterly member or an annual member, and so how does that translate to lifetime customer value? And what I realized was okay, with quarterly members, they were generally leaving at this point with annual members. 

They were generally leaving at the end of the year and I realized, you know, I could offer an unlimited access rate that would exceed the average customer lifetime value I currently have for the membership, and it would keep people in my ecosystem so I could continue to nurture them and serve them and support them through the membership.

And then I could also share other opportunities to work with them, whether it's my mastermind, one-on-one coaching, or certification program. So I was kind of keeping this community that I could continue to nurture. I would be making more money in the long run and I wouldn't have to worry about churn and retention rates. So it just kind of felt like a no-brainer thing to try for 2022, and so that's, that's what I'm doing. 

M: Yeah. And have you noticed after one launch, like, yeah, I want to keep this going, or is it something that you might keep for the year and then maybe change out or...

L: Yeah. So I would say we're still early in my grand experiment. Because this first launch, I really treated it as an internal launch. I launched exclusively to the people who were already in my environment, whether on my list or social media, you name it. And it went really well though—the waitlist, in particular, went really well. 

And then the kind of opening to the general public on my email list went well too. By the end, I had welcomed 13 new members into the program. So I was thrilled with that because the price point was $2,500. That's not an insignificant amount of money.

M: Right, for sure.

L: And I did offer single, five, and 10 payment plans, which was really interesting because two people did the full payment and everyone else did the 10 payment. 

M: Oh that's good data too. 

L: Very good data. Yeah, so I think I'm really liking this model and I do plan on launching again a little later this year. I may make that a slightly larger launch. Maybe I'll do Facebook ads to an event to promote it. Still kind of hammering the details out on that. But yeah, so far, it's really interesting because it almost feels like I'm moving more towards a course model of the payment structure while still keeping the membership structure of the day-to-day operations. 

M: Okay. First of all, I appreciate you sharing your numbers. It's realistic. It helps us understand what's really happening. Too many people keep that hidden. So I think that's really neat. Thank you. B)... I really love—I don't know if I said 1) or A)—The second thing is I love that you said this is an experiment. Sometimes, especially me, I get really rigid in my thinking and I'm like: It has to go this way.

This is the way it has to end up. And just you bringing that word experiment into the conversation is so cool because that's really what it is. Like, how can we play? How can we play and make money at the same time? Like, isn't that neat? Like, why does it all have to be so "just so" or "just perfect", and so I think that's really neat. It sounded, at first, like you made some changes kind of to the business model, but now I'm hearing there might be actual changes to the delivery of the offer as well. Would you say? 

L: Well you know, I don't know yet. And in fact, I think in the next couple of months, I'm probably going to poll my existing members to see if they still like the way this has been going. I have essentially operated this the same way for three years where we have four calls a month. We have a coworking call. We have a Q and A call. We have a guest expert training, and we have a spotlight or hot-seat coaching call. I've done that now for three years and it works for me. 

I really enjoy it. I think it works for my members, but I need to really get more data on that. Or at least that quantifiable data. I have qualitative anecdotes, but I do want to reach out to my members to see what's working and what's not because after three years it would make sense that it might be time to change up the process, the order of operations a bit. So that's on my horizon. 

M: Yeah, I think that's really neat because that's one of the things that happened for me for quarter one is I changed the delivery of my signature offer. Not as much as when I changed from like six months to nine months. I mean, that was a ginormous change, but something that we've done... I got together with Kristin and Shayna.

They are the Copywriter and Graphic Designer in my program. I think you know that. And one thing we talked about was due dates. When I moved to nine months originally, I wanted it to almost be... I didn't want it to be a full-year program, but I thought it was going to end up being actually 10 months because I wanted to take some breaks in between because there are three phases.

Phase one is funnel phase, phase two is marketing, and phase three is sales. So between each phase, I wanted to take a week or two off. But I listened to a couple of students who had loud opinions in one round, and it was a six-month round. And they were saying, oh, well, if we already moved up to nine months, I wouldn't want to then take breaks. 

Like, I feel like nine months is already too long. And so I let that kind of stopped me from doing it in 2021, which was the first year that I ran the nine-month version. But after speaking to actual nine-month students who went through the longer version, they overwhelmingly said, yes, a break would be great. So that is something that we've done. 

We did phase one. Month one is offer concept, and then you end up validating your offer. Month two is branding and the culminating assignment is to write your sales page, and then month three is building out a funnel. So opt-in, tripwire, welcome sequence, all of that. So the infrastructure of your business is built in phase one. So we did two things. We took a two-week break after that to let people continue to build their funnel instead of moving directly into new subject matter in phase two. Because that was one of the pieces of feedback that I got was like, I'm still trying to build this thing and you're teaching me new information and it's too hard. 

Now it's a nine-and-a-half-month program, but I think it functions so much better. Everyone appreciated the two weeks off. I didn't really get two weeks off though because I did one-on-ones with every single student. So I felt like I was back in my therapist chair because there were days where I had four, sometimes five, back to back to back to back.

L: Oh, wow. That's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. 

M: This is my biggest round. I don't know if next round will be this big or bigger. So that will, again, be something I have to evaluate. Each time you run your program, you're going to make changes. And I think it's important to do so instead of trying to fit, you know, one mold, right? 

The other thing that we did is when we're building out the sales page, the landing page, the tripwire page, the opt-in asset, the tripwire asset, and a seven email welcome sequence. We're building all of these things out. It used to just be like, here's the stuff. Go ahead and build it on your own time and turn it in when you want, and Kristen and Shayna will review it for you. 

This year we put due dates. Like, I gave them four weeks to do a sales page. I gave him two weeks to do this. I give two weeks to do this, one week to do this. It's been hard. It's been hard on Kristen and Shayna who now have almost 40 assets to review and try and turn around in a timely manner. But we have the highest participation we've ever had. Out of 38 students, there are 30 that are on the due dates. And then we have a catch-all due date in June, just in case. 

Because this program doesn't happen in a vacuum, and I get that. We didn't all move to an island to build a business together, which would be awesome. I'd freaking love that. We all have life. Right? So we have a catch-all due date in June for anything that got missed. And even those eight who are like, you know, not quite hitting the weekly due dates, they're on track to make the June due date. And it's incredible. It's been super stressful for me as the facilitator. 

I asked the students, I'm like, how do you like having the due dates? And they're like, it's a love-hate thing. They like that there's accountability. But they also hate that they've been hustling. It's new. It's a new thing that I have to learn to facilitate them through. I also have to manage my team through it. 

L: Well, the fact that it's leading to greater engagement and people actually finishing the elements in the course, that's huge. And I think sometimes even as adults, we do need that built-in structure. We need to know not just what's expected of us, but when it's expected. 

And so I can see how having due dates would lead to better outcomes all the way around. And also requires a different energy expenditure, which you and your team and your students are definitely coming up against. So there may even be some additional kind of modulating that needs to happen there as well. 

M: And for me as a leader, and for me as a teacher or facilitator, whatever you want to call it, it brings up the work I have to do too. Because we had a due date that was on Easter. Easter just happened to fall on that Sunday. Next year, it won't be the same, right? It'll probably fall in this due date window though. 

And you know, after kind of talking with everybody, we decided to push it back. And it's like, part of me is like, I don't want to be a hardass. That's why there weren't due dates before. And students finished, but what's different is they would start turning in some stuff in March and April, and then another thing in May, and then maybe a couple of things in June, and then maybe the last thing in July. 

So it was getting done, but what's different about this round is for the most part everybody's funnel is going to be done by the end of May. And so they're going to have all of June, all of July, all of August, all of September, and half of October to be promoting for a launch. So I'm already projecting that the launches are going to be even more successful than in rounds past as well. 

L: Absolutely. And they also have time to use those assets to build their audience, to test, to tweak, to see what lands, to see what doesn't and that, that does feel so spacious to have four and a half months to do that leading up to a launch. That's huge. 

M: So for me, it's like, I've always kind of just been laissez-faire. And I realized that I'm like this with my kids too. I'm like, whatever. And then Josh is like the dictators sometimes. And he's helped me be a little bit more authoritarian, and I've helped him relax a little bit.

But I'm trying to bring that balance to the students as well because I know they're paying me a significant amount of money, but be like they have full practices and families are, and whatever else, you know? And so it's like, I don't want them to treat... I mean, my ego wants them to treat this like it's their full-time job and the only thing they have in their life, but I really don't want that, but I also want them to have results. So it's a fine line to walk. 

L: Yes it is, and that I think is also where you are invited to really show up as the leader, certainly of this cohort, but also in your business. And what does it look like to lead? And to hold that responsibility. I mean, granted, each person is accountable to themselves, whether they do it or not, that's up to them. 

But as a leader, you're creating that space where it can happen. And so just noticing all of the things that are coming up as you're stepping into this next level of your leadership, it's really powerful. 

M: Yeah. And it brings up great things and, like, scary things. 

L: Yeah, that sounds about right. 

M: So what else happened for Q1 besides the Collective? Anything else? You know, that was really the big one. February was my focus on the waitlist launch. March was my focus on the general public launch. And so to do that, I did a live webinar, which actually in six years of business is not something I've really done before. Not the traditional webinar launch. 

I've done workshops, I've done Q and A calls, but I did a full-on webinar where I taught this tool that I created to help people identify where they are at in their stage of business and where they need to go next. It was wonderful. I really enjoyed it. I can see doing it again. I can see turning it into something evergreen, and I'm already creating several assets from the content that I presented in that webinar.

So yeah, so that was, again, it's the year of experimentation, we're trying new things. And so I learned a lot from preparing that webinar and then doing more on the backend of it. So that'll definitely inform what I do later this year. 

M: Yeah. Cool. And I love… yeah, you could run the same webinar again. You could do just straight across... you can make little tweaks based on how the first one went, but a lot of times people make single assets and use them one time and think that, oh, now I have to scrap it and do something different, but that's not the case. Like, you can certainly reuse that and repurpose it in different ways. So that's really cool. 

L: Yeah. How about you? Anything else on your Q1 list of goals accomplished?

M: So what else is kind of fascinating with Side Hustle is my students always get to see me launch. I'm modeling right along with them what they're learning, but in rounds past it has been an established offer to an established audience, which is launching Side Hustle again, which I will be doing in the fall like I always do. 

But also introducing Rooted, which we talked about on our last call, which is my new offer in the lifestyle, spiritual kind of space. The offer gets more spiritual and more woo every day. I love it. I'm not sure, like... I don't know when I first started talking about it, it was productivity and lifestyle design. And now it's not… it's witchy and I love it, but I sent you a picture of a book. 

I don't know if you saw it. I sent it to you yesterday or the day before on Voxer. Man, this book is blowing my mind. It's incredible. We can talk about it later. I'm not into it enough yet to talk about it on the show, but it's pretty cool. It's like womb awakening stuff. So what's neat about the Side Hustle student this round is they're not only going to see me launch the established offer to the established audience, they're seeing me launch a brand new offer to a brand new audience, which is exactly what they're doing. So it's just really cool to be in that experience.

Like I was supposed to be writing my welcome sequence when I slammed my finger in the door—the week they were writing theirs. And I was like, well, you guys, I'm going to be a week late. Sorry. You know? But it's actual real life, you know. 

L: Exactly. Life happens. 

M: So there was a lot that I wanted to get done for Rooted that didn't quite happen. That's why, when people are like, oh, you're, you're like hustling. I'm like, well, does it feel like it to be it because nothing's done. But I did get my Rooted quiz up, which is really exciting. 

It walks through kind of the six stages of the rerooting cycle, which is shedding your conditioning and stepping into, you know, spiritual ownership, lifestyle ownership. That's what the rerooting cycle is, and so the quiz helps you figure out which stage of that cycle you're in. So I got that done, but that's only like a tiny little piece.

L: But it's a big piece. It's a foundational piece because, for many people, this is going to be their first introduction to you. 

M: Oh my God. It's terrifying. 

L: Oh, that's exciting. 

M: It's just so different to be starting all over. 

L: Yeah, I feel that. Yeah. 

M: But I've had 60 people take it since it's been live at the end of March. But I do have some plans for Q2. So let's talk about kinda your Q2 and then we'll dive into what I have kind of going on.

L: Okay. Well, I will say, coming off of Q1 where it was very outwardly focused with launching, I knew quarter two needed to be more of an inward focus where I was going to take stock of my existing resources, change some things up, and I would say after my launch ended at the end of March, I basically spent the first three weeks of April in a cave. 

At least that's how it felt. I was so depleted. One of the things I realized was I managed my energy during the launch pretty well. I felt really good about how I was showing up in February and in March. What I did not anticipate was how much time I would need after the launch to restore. I thought maybe a few days of downtime, a long weekend, and I'd be good to go. And that was not the case at all. I needed like two to three weeks. 

So I kind of felt like Q2 got off to a bit of a false start, and I didn't necessarily hit the ground running with some of the things I wanted to accomplish. But again, that was really important data. And talking about rest and energy management. I now know that I need to plan probably two weeks after a big launch to not do much except. Post-launch stuff, follow up with my new members, look at my data, that kind of stuff but not expect that I'm going to go right into the next project. 

M: Yeah. And I'm going for the woo, but you and I have some similarities in our astrological chart, some overlap. Not a lot, but a little bit, and that's exactly kind of what happened to me. April 1st was the new moon, and I was like, I had... so it was an Aries, which is my moon sign. So I was fired up. I was like, I'm good to go, I'm ready. And then all my new moon messaging or from my chart, you know, whatever was saying, it's not time yet.

And so I literally felt like somebody popped my balloon. So I'm wondering, it's like the same timeframe is the first couple of weeks in April. So I'm wondering if some of that wasn't like happening for you as well? 

L: I think it probably was. Yeah, I think it was… it really, for me, wasn't till about April 20th, April 21st, the start of Taurus season that I felt grounded. Funny enough. So now this next cycle, that was where I started traveling. So I went and spent a week in Texas with Megan Hale. Our mutual friend. 

M: I was so jealous!

L: We missed you. We missed you so much. Yeah, it was, it was a wonderful week. Lots of like both business and spiritual awakenings for me, which was pretty exciting. Came home, got sick for a week, and then left for another week. I was in New Haven, Connecticut. I'm a part of the Digital Insiders Mastermind and we had our in-person there. And that was wonderful too. 

Lots of business breakthroughs. I just got back like two days ago. So again, I'm entering this period of time where I need a little bit of space to integrate, but I also have a lot of content to produce coming up. I've got several podcasts that I need to record. I have kind of a concept for a new funnel, so I'll be modifying my existing quiz and then that'll lead into a new funnel, largely inspired by the content that I taught during my webinar last quarter. 

And then the big one, and this is going to take more time than I initially thought it would because that's just how things work. I am revamping my certification program, the Certified Clarity Coach training program. And I may have mentioned this last time, but the International Coaching Federation is completely changing their accreditation process for programs.

M: Of course, right after you just got it. 

L: Yes. Figures, right? No, it's a good thing. I really like the additional requirements and pieces that they're adding to it. I think it's going to strengthen the coaching profession. It's certainly going to strengthen the accreditation process, but it means I've got a lot of kind of background things to do, lots of policies to write, and procedures to document.

And even though my curriculum is already approved—I'm good to go on that point—I'm shifting away from a here's one entire 125-hour program into more of a three-phased approach where you can take a 30-hour intro class, you can add a 30-hour specialization on there because those two combined will get you where you need to be for your first level of credentialing through ICF, and then I will add a master's course, the additional 65 hours to get you to that point. So retooling curriculum, that's going to take a while too, on top of all of the policies and procedures I'll be creating. Yeah. So I was thinking that was going to be Q2. I think it's going to be Q2 into Q3, to be honest with you.

M: So when students finish the credentialing program, what credential do they have? 

L: Yes. So they have a certification that I issue. So they are Certified Clarity Coaches, and that will be true for people who finished the 60 hours. So the first two phases that will also prepare them to apply for the ICS first level credential, the Associate Certified Coach, or the ACC. All of the training that they'll receive will meet all of those requirements.

So that's the beauty of attending a school that's been accredited as, you know, as long as you finish it, you're going to get credit for it. There's no application, you know, double-checking there. Then what's going to happen for that final piece, that 65-hour course, students who take it will then receive the master certified clarity coach designation from me, and then they will be eligible to apply for the second level of credentialing through ICF, which is the Professional Certified Coach or the PCC. 

Yeah, I'm really excited. You know, I really believe in my curriculum. I believe in the way I'm able to support helping professionals transition into coaching while still leveraging all of the experience and skills and training from their initial careers. When we blend that with a strong coaching methodology and some additional business support, it's like, here you go. Like, you're ready. Go do it.

M: So, yeah, that gives me goosebumps. 

L: Oh, well, thank you. So that's going to be, Q2 is a lot of kind of behind-the-scenes stuff. And then I'm also launching a second cohort of my mastermind program, and this is a really small intimate program. Four to six people, max. I already have two that are on board, so we're just going to kind of fill out that cohort and then probably do that for about nine months. 

M: So internal as in working on the business, inside, but are you doing any kind of like personal stuff? Not like, personal enjoyment, but like personal growth, personal work?

L: I feel like my whole life is personal development. Yes, though, I'm really being thoughtful about my spirituality, how I express that. Carving time out on ideally a daily basis, though, it doesn't always happen. But on a regular basis for those practices, really deepening my own connection to spirit and to my intuition.

And I'm also, in June, completing my master level Reiki training program. So I've been in a Reiki course since September, which has been amazing for personal development. I mean, I really enrolled in it not because I intended to start a Reiki business, but because I wanted to explore my own relationship to energy and how that works. So that'll be finishing up in June as well. So that feels like a really big culmination to something I've been working on for quite a while. 

M: Oh my, that is so cool. You have some cool stuff going on. 

L: Thank you.

M: Yeah, so you're probably gonna laugh. I basically signed up for more but signed up for more stuff that's easy for me. So it's like doing more, but it's not doing anything hard. But Jacqueline, my coach who you know, you're familiar with Jacqueline. We've worked together for like almost seven years now—since right after Sawyer was born. So I guess that's six and a half. Well, no, seven years. 

I'm sitting here thinking like, oh yeah, I'm just going to build this quiz for Rooted, and then I'm just going to run a bunch of ads to it, and then it's just going to be easy. I just want to have 2000 on my Rooted email list by the end of October or November because... and this was done with Leslie. Leslie is my business astrologer, who I met through you, who you hung out with in Texas.

We worked on some launch dates. So the waitlist launch for Rooted is going to be in November—November 15th, I think. And then the big launch to the public is going to be on December 3rd. And so those are the dates that we outlined. So by the end of October, I want to have 2000 on just my Rooted email list, which I have 60 who have taken the quiz and then I've separated out the therapists, the listeners of this podcast, and my other audience because there are some who've expressed interest in wanting to kind of have not only the business work with me but also kind of that lifestyle spiritual work with me as well. 

And so I don't know… what if I add both of those together. I don't know what it totals. It might be closer to 200 or something like that, but I'm really only going off of who's taken the quiz so far. And so again, I'm just going to run ads all summer and spend like $2,000 a month and do nothing. And Jacqueline was like, you could do that. Or you could do what you're doing. 

And I was like, what are you talking about? And she's like—and this to collaborate or corroborate stuff that Leslie's been telling me for the last six months—she was like, if you were to tell me how you built your therapist business, what would you say? And I would said, well, I did a giant summit that brought me 2000 people. And then every year after that I did two events, which you've been part of several of them, which brought me, you know, three to 500 people each time. And that's how I built my email list. 

And she was like, and was that hard for you? And I was like, no. She's like, why aren't you doing that? And she's like, do you want to spend 10,000 over the summer? Or do you want to just do what you're good at? That's going to get you probably better results because running ads to a brand new offer to a brand new audience is not cheap. And it's a lot of wasted money until you dial it in. So she's like, do you want to spend 10,000? Do you want to waste half of that? Or do you want to just do what you're good at? 

So that's what I'll be doing. So I've spent all the end of April and all of May so far gathering people, sometimes doing coffee chats with a couple of people, but right now, just really kind of like putting—it sounds terrible—putting people in categories like oh, these are astrologers.

These are tarot readers. These are energy workers, and so on and so forth. And then I'm going to kind of go through those lists and see who feels like they're on brand, who feels like an energetic match, who feels like a great collaborator who has similar goals as I do. Every month, starting in June on the solstice, which is my birthday, I'm going to do a circle every month, which is different.

L: I love it. I love it so much. 

M: In my therapist business, I've done this as, like, a panel, right? We'll get six people together, and all six of those people talk for 10 minutes. That's an hour. And then we'll have an hour of Q and A at the end. And it's the same concept, but in the spiritual space, it's not a panel. 

We're not going to be teaching at people. We're going to be facilitating, right? Like the tarot reader might do a 10-minute reading or whatever, the energy worker might do, a 10-minute thing, you know? And here's where my imposter syndrome comes in is like, while I feel like I've always been spiritual, I haven't claimed my space here for very long, but one thing I'm excellent at is being the gatherer. Like, all my life I've done that I have gathered groups of people. 

So even if I'm just like the facilitator of the circle, I still think that has value. I am. I'm having to work through that a little bit cause I'm not bringing an expertise necessarily.

L: Well, I think you are bringing an expertise, but that's a separate matter. I think first and foremost, understanding that your ability to create communities, to bring people together, and to help them establish those connections, that is a gift. It's a gift that not everyone has. And so it is so tempting to minimize the things that come naturally to us to think, oh, well this is just something I do. It's not like it matters, but it does matter.

M: I've never seen value in it. Ever. Because any of the events that I've had for the therapist business, yes, I was bringing people together, but I was also teaching or I was also presenting or also relying on masculine energy of teaching and presenting and linear form and function.

L: Right. Yeah. 

M: And so seeing this value in a softer skill or a gentler skill, it's a growth point for me, for sure. 

L: That makes so much sense and leaning into this idea that you can center curation because that's what you're doing. You are curating this experience and you're drawing in the people who need to be a part of it, who on some level know this is the next step for me. 

But curation is a talent—like that is a skill. Not everyone can do that, and to do curation separate from information, cause I think that's what you are really good at. You're very good at teaching. You're very good at sharing your expertise, but now you're moving into a place where it's like, I don't have to do that. I can focus on curation and that can be enough.

M: Yeah. Because in Rooted, There's like... how you kind of have a call all four weeks in Coach with Clarity. I am teaching only one week of a month, and then the other weeks are all about having a circle and doing rituals together. It's all about that community aspect.

And this was something that in my monthly readings from Leslie and just like doing brand, like branding astrology and stuff together, she's always like, you need to be relying on people. You need to be using people using your network, and collaborating with your community. And I was like, so over that, I'm so past that. That was early in my business.

So it wasn't like I was afraid of it by any means. I felt like I was too good for it. If I'm going to be completely blatantly honest, I thought I was past doing organic marketing, but nothing has been more effective business-wise for me. And nothing is easier for me. And I think nothing serves us better.

L: I so appreciate that you just shared that too. And specifically sharing the fact that it felt a little like going backwards, like: Haven't I already grown past this? And it is tempting to look at the things that we did in the early stage of our businesses and think cool, thank God I don't have to do that again.

And yet those are the things that got us to where we are today. And I understand the point that what got you here won't get you there. Yeah. Okay. I get that. But what got you here? On some level was how you leveraged your strengths. So why would you move away from that? Instead, let's just find new, innovative ways to really lean into that.

M: And I 100% believe in it. It's the first thing I teach in the marketing phase. We, honestly, just on Friday, we started visibility marketing on Friday, but collaborations is two weeks from now in Side Hustle. But it's the first thing I teach in marketing because it's the most effective thing. 

And yes, it's easier for me, but even for students who they've had to like really step into a growth zone, to be able to like have an event once they've had it, they're like, you know, they see 300 people join their list in a week compared to like, you know, podcasting or some of these other strategies that work but they're slower where it takes four months to get 300 people or whatever. Right? 

So it's like, I believe in it. I teach it. I just didn't know why I was so reluctant to do it. But so in June, we'll start with the summer solstice circle and then in July, August, September, and October, I'll be hosting these circles. I'll be curating groups that, like I said, maybe an astrologer or maybe a tarot reader or an Oracle card reader or something creating kind of this circle.

And so then instead of like question and answer and teaching, it'll be more like sharing, like circle space. But also I don't, I feel like my ability to hold space has only gotten bigger, right? When you're a therapist and you're working one-on-one, you hold that space. And then some people do couples therapy, or some people do group therapy and you're able to hold a bigger space.

I'm now holding space for 38 people in Side Hustle. I went from nine to 13, to 21, to 28, to 28 again, and then to 38, and it feels like I can't help but realize that that was a preparation to be able to hold this kind of space, because I wouldn't have been able to do this two, three years ago. 

L: No, and that graduated approach, it's such a gentle approach. It allows for that expansion to happen over time, because if you were to have gone from zero to 38... 

M: Oh my God. No. 

L: That would have been painful. 

M: It would have been a disaster. 

L: Yeah, and so instead we're just looking at gentle expansion, and I think that requires patience. It requires being in it for the long haul.

I mean, you did this over the course of years, but now you're at a point where it's like, look what I've done and look what I will be able to do moving forward because that expansion will continue. 

M: Yeah. So right now for the rest of May, I'm just kind of still curating the groups and then I'll start probably approaching people, putting them in, like scheduling it out. 

So that dance between the feminine skills and the masculine skills like starting June 1st is I'll probably start like, all right, who wants to be in the June circle? Let's get five other people. I need five other people, me being the sixth...times five, so 25. So I'll probably approach 40-45 people to be able to lock in 25 people.

And then, you know, the point is for them to bring their audience. And then we have them all sign up—like, register to attend the circle. They'll get a replay and all that stuff. So it's still online business concepts. It's still stuff that I've done for a long time and that I teach, but it's just in this new arena, which feels really good.

L: I'm so excited. I can't wait to see how it goes. I can't wait to check-in at our next recording and be like, okay, let's break it down. 

M: Yeah. So, why don't we do what we did last call and kind of set an intention for the rest of quarter two, and then we can check in on it for the quarter three call.

L: Okay, so my intention for quarter two is to balance progress with rest. Kind of coming back to where I started in our discussion, there's so much I want to do, and I know I will not get it all done if I try to do it all at once. 

So honestly for me, it looks like sitting down and looking at the next six to eight weeks, blocking off time for rest, blocking off time for family, and then being really thoughtful about when I want and how I want to do the work that my business is asking of me. So that's going to be my focus is this balanced approach to work and rest. 

M: I love that because that's something I really recently started doing in 2022 is I used to just leave white space in my calendar, but I wasn't actually assigning that white space anything. I wasn't assigning it rest, or go to Target, or whatever. And so I wouldn't be working. I made sure I wasn't working at that time, but I would just be sitting there watching Netflix for six hours and it wasn't actually restorative. 

We've had this conversation before. Right? So I really love that you're like, okay, I'm gonna block off time for this and this, and then figure out how I'm going to work. 

L: Yeah. Yes. So we'll see how that goes. That's my plan. And we'll see, we'll see how that allows me to finish up quarter two. How about you, my friend? What is your intention for the remainder for the remained for quarter two?

M: The one thing I need to actually finish is the welcome sequence. Cause I'm having people take this quiz and then they're just like getting one email and then nothing. So that actually has to happen. The due date for the students is May 22nd. We're recording on May 16th. You guys are listening to this a little bit later, but so I've told my students that May 17th and May 19th are blocked off for me to write that sequence. And so we're doing it all at the same time, which is really cool. So that's the first thing that has to get done. 

And then what I'd really love to have... Well, when does Q2 end, like, July, right? What I'd really love to have early in June is not only like start lining up the people, but I want to systematize these circles, meaning creating one landing page, one welcome email, and so on, and then be able to just duplicate that and change the date from June to July and then change the date from July to August so that they become really easy to facilitate.So getting some of that setup in early. 

L: Excellent. That sounds realistic, right? Like, okay. We've got a nurture sequence and we've got essentially templatizing or circles. How does it feel when you set that as your intention for the next six weeks? 

M: It doesn't feel ambitious, but when you asked me that question, I don't feel enough maybe flow. It feels a little forced, not a lot of flow. So I'm almost going to kind of take a page from your book and say, okay, this is what has to be done, but how can it fit into what I have going on in life instead of like moving life for this putting life first and then putting that second. 

L: That makes sense. Because as you were talking, I was hearing sequences, scheduling, protocol, templatizing, and it's like okay, so we have that very masculine energy, which is your default and it's also needed, right? Like that is a part of your business. So maybe then we invite that feminine energy in and for you to explore, what does it look like to create space for that? Or even better create partnership with that? 

M: Yeah. And while you bring that up, that's what I was talking about, like with my imposter syndrome is I've been in this feminine energy, the spiritual space. And I've been around women who are so rooted in their feminine, and this is a transition that I'm making.

Right? And even Jacqueline she's like, you don't have to take your masculine away. Your masculine is strong and it's something that a lot of people don't have is that ability to systematize or whatever. But instead of saying that you need to bring your masculine down to where your feminine already is or is currently, how can you keep your masculine words and raise your feminine?

And that's almost what I heard from you. And so that's one of the things that Rooted is all about is like, I'm not 10 years into this. I'm making this transition along with the people who are going to come in Rooted with me. It's going to be like a journey together. But it's different than like, I know exactly how this works and I'm teaching you and like it's a different piece.

L: Yeah. You're not standing in that expert role. Let me teach you what I've already done. It's actually more of a servant leadership model where it's like, we're doing this together. You know, I might be a couple of steps ahead, but not that far ahead. Right. And so let's explore kind of what it looks like for me to serve you in this capacity, as I'm doing my own work.

I think that allows for a level of authenticity and transparency and vulnerability that is really powerful. So I'm excited to see how this manifests in Rooted. I think it's going to be incredible. 

M: Yeah. So there you go. In real-time, me modeling, it's straight like here's what I'm gonna do masculine. Okay. But now how do I bring the feminine back in? So where can people go to follow you for Q2 and just to kind of see what you're up to? 

L: Yeah. So I think I am going to encourage people to come take my quiz, and you can go to coachingquiz.com. I feel so fortunate that I got that domain. 

M: The first thing I thought is how'd you get that domain?

L: I know. It was available three years ago and I was like, I better lock that down while I can. Yeah. So you can go to coachingquiz.com and that's where you can discover what type of coach you are, and then that'll lead you into my world, into Coach with Clarity. So yeah, just head to coachingquiz.com. 

M: Yeah. I think I'm a mentor and a strategist because I think I've taken it twice. So the first one, I think I got a mentor. And then the second time I think I got strategist.

L: I can see that. Yes, there are five types. So if you want to know your type... and I think too, it's important to say: It's not that you are one and only one type, right? It tends to reflect what you lead with. I believe on some level where a blend of all five types. It's just a question of what's your comfort zone, what do you default to. So yeah, and I'll be building out much more content around that as well. So yeah, I think that'll be fun.

M: Awesome. And I'll have that in the show notes for everybody. And then Lee and I will be back in three months to talk about where we're at in quarter three. So make sure you follow along for that one just to keep us accountable. 

Alright. That was super fun. I always loved chatting with Lee because she is somebody who I just... I know she loves me and she can call me on my crap and she can celebrate me. And it's just really fun to have a friendship like that. We have so many commonalities in our personal lives, in our personal growth, but also we have business stuff in common and we just really round each other out and complement each other. 

It was so cool for Lee to go and share numbers with us and to share, you know, wins and highs from the beginning of the year, as well as some of the lows and some of the challenges from the beginning of the year, as well as kind of what we have planned for the middle of the year here. We're smack dab in Q2 as you're listening to this, so what we've kind of accomplished so far in Q2 and what our plans for the rest of the second quarter are. 

So we will of course be back with quarter three and quarter four, keeping you updated on our year throughout. So you can kind of follow along with us.If you have questions for me or for Lee, we are both members of the Empathy Rising Facebook group. So you can definitely tag us in there. 

If you want to ask us a question directly and don't forget to head on over to Lee's quiz and her website, her website is coachwithclarity.com and her quiz is coachingquiz.com. Alright. I will talk with you next week, and until then keep on rising.

And check out these related posts!