Summer Coaching Series: Moving Adjacent With Your Side Hustle
It's easy to get distracted by the day-to-day tasks and responsibilities that come with being a therapist—especially when you're also trying to build a successful side hustle.
In this Summer Coaching Series episode, I'll be guiding you through some tips on how to make sure that you're moving with not against your side hustle, and understanding where you're getting your clients from. It's important that we don't break a system that is actively working for us.
We all have limited time and resources, so let's make sure we're using them wisely!
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Show Notes:
Hey risers. Welcome back to episode 166 of Empathy Rising. We are at the tail end of our summer coaching series here, and I have really been looking forward to this episode. I am recording with Jason Freshman today. And since the very first time I came across his work, he posted something in my Facebook group a while ago, I wanna say two years ago.
And since then, I've just been fascinated with the stuff that he does, conscious parenting - conscious and mindful and present fatherhood in particular. So I cannot wait to dive in with Jason and for you guys to hear. Just some business tips that we go through and some coaching that we go through, but also I just really wanna know about his work.
So I'll be asking him just questions about that too. So hopefully this will be a fun episode for you guys.
Hey risers. Welcome back to another episode of the summer coaching series. We are here with Jason Freshman, who I am so excited for this conversation we connected, I don't know, maybe two years ago now time is so what's time . But his work has fascinated me just intently since I came across him. And since we met and connected.
And so it's long overdue to go ahead and have him on the show, some of this will be coaching, but I think some of this will just be like interviewing him about what he does and the fascinating aspect of his work. So, Jason, if you could go ahead and introduce yourself for us a little bit, and then we'll just dive in.
[00:02:39] Jason: Absolutely. Thank you. First of all, this is great. And yeah, watching your work and your stuff over the years, you know, evolve and change has been really inspiring to me. So, I really thank you for that. So yeah, I'm Jason Freshman and let's see, I have a doctorate in psychology where I focused on narrative therapy. And I have a master's degree in psychology where I focused on adventure therapy so I be, you know, I'm a storytelling adventure therapist. So, you know, the other thing is, is that I do, I have a passion and experience with food, activism and education. So I'm also cooking locally and leading classes on fermentation and, so it's really perfect for what we do out here. And so I live in a rural town in Vermont. We were talking about that I used to live in Burlington for many years. My practice is still based outta Burlington. But right now, about eight years ago, we moved out into the country where my wife and I have, a number of acres and gardens and we call it the, we call it owl hill homestead. It's where all of the, we've had more wildlife there than we've seen in a long time. And it's just been really wonderful. And then you had asked, you know, my clinical work. Four years. I say I date myself a little bit, but I call it the boys to men practice. I started my career working in residential treatment centers with mostly boys. And then as I worked into more community mental health, I was still doing working with young boys teenagers and their families. Then I had my own kids. I had my own two boys and really, as I, that happened, I shifted to working. I really wanted my kid energy to go to my kids and their friends. And I shifted to working with more sort of young men, men in transition, you know, in that like middle age, not middle ages, but like, you know, getting outta college, starting a young adult life and then found a passion working for, with fathers and really loving the whole journey, the whole developmental journey of, of boys in our culture, in our society.
[00:04:35] Marissa: That was one of the things like I literally have goosebumps as you're talking because, A, the therapy field tends to be, female dominated and everybody that's been on the coaching series so far has been a woman, woman identifying, and their ideal client is a woman in some aspect. And here you are like, I'm gonna say, man, am I correct to say that, um, serving other men? Right. And I think it's just fascinating because it's a population that doesn't get at least in, in my work and the people that I've come across in my students, it's not a population that gets served as highly and not only is highly, but like as well, right when I read your stuff. And when I read your posts, like your words, they just speak to me. And I'm not your ideal customer, but I can imagine, like, if I was your ideal customer, if I'm having an emotional reaction, they're having an emotional reaction and it's just so powerful.
[00:05:31] Jason: It's been really wonderful. There's a joke that I always choose the hard path and, you know, working with men and then particular fathers is it is hard to engage with dads for so many reasons, you know, culturally societally, and to personally time wise resources, you know, all these reasons, but when you do it, is it's amazing. It really like getting guys to have conversations about real things is really the most incredibly inspiring thing I get to do.
[00:06:01] Marissa: Yeah. And, you know, we've talked about my most recent work in my, my side hustle rooted, which is focusing on that, that whole and healthy, feminine energy. But there's also the counterpart to that, which is the whole and healthy, masculine energy. And the patriarchy has done neither of us, neither of those, a service, right. Because it, we know the way that it's discriminated and everything, women, but men are a product of that as well. And so when you're talking about like men having feelings, men talking about things that matter, it's just so powerful and it's so needed.
[00:06:35] Jason: Absolutely. Can I tell a quick story about that?
[00:06:37] Marissa: Yes, please, please.
[00:06:38] Jason: So I, you know, as one, even in this introduction, you might imagine I surround myself with really strong women. Mm-hmm and, uh, so my wife and, and a bunch of our friends in the beginning of the pandemic, we were sitting outside having dinner.
And I, you know, I'm a little bit of an oppositional teenager in heart, so I like to stir things up and these, there was. For women, we were all having dinner together. And we were just talking about things that you might imagine, you know, we're talking about what was going on in politics and what was going on.
And I sort of blurted out. I said, you know, the patriarchy's hurt men as much, if not more than women. Right. And they all were just like, you know, yeah. And I've said, all right. And one of the, one of the women was a good friend of mine, sort of called me out and said, look, you just try and rile us up. Yes. The patriarchy is, you know, has hurt men. Right. A lot, I don't know about more. And I also don't know about more. Right. But the idea that we, that, that it's even hard to talk about, like it took courage to talk about that in my group of female friends. , right. So it is really something that is difficult because it's so confusing people, you know, on so many levels, it's so difficult for men and women to talk about the damage that's done and the work that men need to do other than wagging fingers and saying, you guys gotta fix this. You could, you know, be different to be better.
[00:07:56] Marissa: Right. And it, there needs to be vulnerability on both sides. There needs to be, I feel the willingness of women to, to listen and the willingness of men to go there. Right. And yes. And that's gonna take time, that's gonna take a ton of deconditioning. That's gonna take, you know, it's all systemic. And so there's a lot that has to happen for, for changes to be made. But I feel like that's a big call in this new step that I'm taking is talking about those things.
[00:08:24] Jason: So cool. And it's so, yeah, I'm so glad to hear that because it really having the conversation with both men and women is gonna bring us a lot further, you know, I think. Men have a lot of work to do on our own, like not just with women. But then what happens when, you know, I'm with a group of men, we have these conversations and then they leave and you know, exactly.
Are they being heard? Are they being, you know, kind of yeah, yeah.
[00:08:49] Marissa: And accepted in those ways, depending on your pedagogy, depending on the methodologies that you follow and that you embrace, like everyone's gonna see this a little bit differently, but I tend to think it's like the work happens in isolation first and then comes into relationship. And so, you know, if, if they're, if they're working with you in these groups and these programs are so amazingly designed to support the men and then maybe down the road, like you have a program that is more like relationship based or couple based or whatever, where it's like, okay, now how do we bring this healing, these skill sets, all this stuff that we've learned individually, how do we bring that into relationship? You know? And some people go, the let's talk about that. Oh, I would so be about that. I would be all about that. . So do you have any questions for me? Any thoughts? Any, uh, I know you mentioned before we started recording that, um, Your website's just about to go live. Anything you wanna pick my brain about spare game. And then I would love to talk about like what you are doing, cuz you've run your program, your group a couple of times now. So I'd love to talk about also what the program does. If we wanna talk to any refinement or anything just wherever you wanna go.
[00:09:58] Jason: Absolutely. I mean, as you might imagine, there's all sorts of questions, but the burning one for me that I think has been it's been, it's been something that I'm playing with, especially be now getting the website going or is, is really about engagement, right? Like you mentioned the emotion or the, the, the resonance that you feel when you read some, my posts, the truth, the matter is I get more engagement and almost all engagement from the wives, from women. And so that makes sense, you know, like we were just talking about, yeah. Men are particularly hard to engage. I, I, in, in some ways, and I also have asked all of the guys who've gone through my program. Hey what social media are you on? What, what do you do? And most of them say nothing. You know, a lot of the guys that are my deal client are not really on very often. Yeah. If at all. And so for me, it's really about how to engage and how to, you know, like let's, I mean, to put it sort of bluntly, the program has been validated.
It really, the guys are, are the guys who have gone through it have been so powerfully, you know, connected and, and really important to that. The program's there, there is a need. The there are the guys out there it's really about how I like sort of cracking that nut on getting the message out in the right way that's, I think, you know, all the details of the program, I'm pretty comfortable like building the plane while I fly it but getting that message out there is something that it's why I was so excited.
[00:11:24] Marissa: Yeah, that makes sense because Josh, my husband, he only uses Facebook and he only uses it for like memes. Like, you know, that's like, he finds funny Ghostbusters and star Trek memes. Like that's his thing and so I, and you know, he is what, 30 he'll be 38. Yeah. So he'll be 38. And I feel like that's like men that I've known or worked with that have been a few years younger than him, much more in, into the social. But like that kind of elder millennial, I guess, is what they call us. Like most of the guys I know in that age range, they don't, they don't even use it or they like very, they, they might use it to consume, but they're not posting necessarily and stuff like that.
[00:12:05] Jason: Yeah. So, and they're not doing people, my friends who are in marketing or have teased me, they're like, your stuff is great, but it's too long. It's too long. It's too. I'm like, okay. You know, so I get that,
[00:12:16] Marissa: but I'm a long, long it is. You're right person though. Like, I that's, that's probably why I like it. That's probably why it resonates with me cuz all my shit's too long too. How many, so you've run the group. What? Three times, two, three times now.
[00:12:27] Jason: I've run it three times. One was a beta . And then I've had, and there's eight guys in each group. Okay. That's 24 people. Yep. And then I've had a hand, like a couple of individual clients as well who've run through the same curriculum individually.
[00:12:40] Marissa: Where have they been coming from so far? Is this word of mouth?
[00:12:44] Jason: Vast majority? I would say the vast majority is I connected with one or two mama coaches. Who then basically said, Hey, if your partner's into doing something similar, he's this is your guy.
[00:12:57] Marissa: I don't think that's a bad idea.
[00:12:59] Jason: Yeah.
[00:12:59] Marissa: really don't like that's. I mean, when we think about couples counseling eight outta 10, nine out of 10 times, it's the wife probably making the phone call, you know,
[00:13:09] Jason: that's actually what you know, doing, you know, most of my. Therapy practice is with men as well. And for a long time, most of my individual men came from a couple therapists.
[00:13:19] Marissa: I don't think it's a bad idea, but I hear you. Like, I wanna take this message straight to the men. Like I wanna take this message straight to the source. So while this business is new and growing, we have a funnel source or a traffic source that's working. Let's do what's working. Sometimes we say, let's do more of what's working. And that might not be exactly what you wanna do. You might not wanna take what's working and then ratchet up three, four notches because you also wanna take the message in a different direction. So what I don't wanna say do more of what's working, but let's continue to do what is working.
So we're still getting money and revenue and helping people. So the income and the impact, while we start getting the message in the different direction. When I make pivots, I'm always making very slow pivots, like rooted has been in my mind and in, on my heart since 2020, right. When a lot of us had these like the hell am I doing with my life existential crises.
Right. But it's only coming to life at the end of 2022. So a full two years later. Right. So I pivot very slowly. That's not to say you have to go that slow, but we have a traffic source, a referral source that's working. We can cut it off at the knees and just say, oh, not doing that anymore. Let me go this direction and just go all. Or we can keep this referral source flowing with an amount of effort that feels right. Like maybe not pedal to the metal, but like, you know, 45 miles an hour pedal down and then, and then we also start doing this. So which feels better kind of like a stop here and a full on in this direction or kind of like a gradual, I think more of a gradual because I.
[00:15:05] Jason: You know, I tend to, you know, with my own little ADHD brain, I tend to like having a couple things going, but the, the danger of that is doing too much and you know, all of that, but I have a couple relationships with some mom coaches I'm always open to learn, to meeting more. And like, I think that I have a pretty set, you know, like if a mom coach says, Hey, I'd love to, to share your stuff.
I have a couple of letters that I know that are good, that I've said perfect. So I would love to continue growing that. Everyone that I've spoken to, I've met with a, I have a friend who's a business coach and talking to me and they, you know, they're always, they will say like speak to the moms, speak to the wives and there's a fine line there. Right? If my wife got off Facebook and said, Hey, you should do this. So the way that I do it with mom, coaches, I think actually balances that line really well. . And so I would certainly want to continue that. I, it's just a matter of, I am looking, you know, ultimately to scale and the program can do that many good ways. So it's just a matter of, you know, wanting, you know, from a business standpoint, wanting to move from frankly wanting to move from scrambling to fill a group, right. To having like a weight to having people apply.
[00:16:13] Marissa: Yeah. For sure. Apply to the group a hundred percent and that growth. For me, like the first round of side hustle, there were nine, the second round of side hustle, there were 13 and then there were 21 and then there were 28 and then there were 28 again at a new price point.
And then there were 38, right. So it was like slow, slow. Holy crap. Right. I had to hire people in the middle of a program cuz I couldn't facilitate by myself anymore. And like, right. So yeah. So fast growth is lovely in terms of like, oh I'm making so much money, but fast growth also opens up like other problems and other doors that you have, like things you have to absolutely solve.
Right. So wanting a wait list. I think that's awesome. I love having like a, a goal like that and some that's really tangible too. Like something we can actually yeah. I wanna have between launches. I wanna have 20 people on the wait list. Well, 20 you've done it eight, eight each time. So let's say I wanna have 32 people on the wait list so that we're really, we have four times the amount to fill a group and we know there's not gonna be any issue filling it. Right. Having tangible goals like that. I'm all about it. What I'm thinking about. I have a couple things coming to mind. You said you're on Facebook and Instagram. Have you looked at TikTok at all? Yeah, you guys can't see, but he got this kind of funny Grimes, half smile, half Grimes face .
[00:17:35] Jason: I just spent a week with four sort of queen teenage girls, our cousins who were telling me about it. So I have not looked at TikTok at all. I, again, it's one of those things where do your clients live? I don't know a single man. Who's on tiktok but I'll listen to what you have to say. I'm curious.
[00:17:56] Marissa: Yeah. So the reason I'm saying this is because there's a hell of an activism angle, a hell of a social justice angle on to,
[00:18:05] Jason: oh, really?
[00:18:06] Marissa: We don't think about yeah. Most of the time we're thinking about We're thinking about like dancing, teenage girls, for sure. For sure. Right. That's what the platform is known for. Um, but like, you know, with all the Roe V Wade stuff, like that's, all my feed is, is coming up with plans. Who's protesting where like all of that stuff. So what is cool about TikTok is they call it sides. There's different sides of TikTok. So we have the teenage girls side, we have this activism political side that I'm kind of inundated with. They also have like the other side that I like to hang out on is like the witchy side where it's like the crystals and the tarot cards and that kind of stuff. Right. But there I would maybe be a lurker for a little bit and use some hashtags. That might be like I mean, we could pull it up. I don't wanna, I don't know. Let's say like, because you're not gonna. I'm just gonna make this up, but like, let's say like men's adventure. I know that's not what your group is. But like you're right. And then we go over to hashtags and there's 14,700 views on hashtag men's adventure. So that's not exactly right. There's but I'm just gonna click on that and see what's happening. Okay. Plant medicine and stuff like that. Like Iowa that's, which is all stuff I do as well, but there's some and stuff like that.
So one account that I follow it's both on TikTok and on Instagram is called at like the app sign, sacred sons.
[00:19:39] Jason: Oh, I know the sacred sense.
[00:19:40] Marissa: Okay, cool. So they're a little bit woo. A little bit spiritual, but they've got drums and like primal stuff and like men around buyers. And like, there's there was one exercise that I saw that like moved me to tears where there was an older man and a man in his twenties and the older man volunteer, like in the exercise was acting as the father to the younger man. And then the younger man was acting as the younger self to the older man. And they did, they both ended up crying, sobbing. Right. So they're, they are an account that I would recommend following either on Instagram or if you're in, gonna check out TikTok, because then you'll say, okay, who's following them. What hashtags are they using? And then you can start to go on, I call it a rabbit hole. And sometimes if we've got like the neuro divergent set of timer, because you'll look up and it'll be three hours later. So, yes. For sure. So set a timer and then go down the rabbit hole. What hashtags are they using? What posts have they posted that have had the most likes? Are the people liking and commenting men? Other men is the, is the account reaching who their target market is and who they're wanting to reach and who you're wanting to reach, or is the same thing happening for them? Are the women, the ones commenting and liking, and then sending their partners or whatever, or their brothers or friends.
Right. Because that might be what's happening for them too, but it's worth doing some of this digging.
[00:21:03] Jason: I can't remember one thing they're saying about the sacred sons, if I can interrupt, it's really interesting. And I like them. I, you know, I'm, I am all about like, you know, drumming and screaming at the sky. I mean, adventure therapy. What's interesting is the clients that I've really engaged with. Based on the, the type of work that I do, which we can talk about. Yeah, please. I would call them in some ways. I've never said this before, but I would call them sort of woo, woo. Adjacent. Yeah. Right. Like, these are the guys who, I mean, without trying to be sarcastic, these are the guys who their wives are really into yoga. Right. They're and they're kind of curious, they're open, they've got some of the woo, but like they're all so busy and they're successful and they're trying to work and they're trying to take care of the family. And like, they're sort of like in that, you know, liminal space between mainstream and woo.
[00:21:50] Marissa: For sure. And, and that's the line I'm dancing right now, too, for sure. You know what else just spoke to me like I'm using Josh a lot because he might be an ideal customer for you, martial arts. Josh gets has the ING and he does these ING cards and stuff. So they're not tarot cards, but I mean, they're like they not ING. Yeah. They're like tarot card. I tease them all the time, but he draws one every day and he does like the meditation based on what the card says and stuff. So Marshall arts, um, interesting could be a way in, because they're very, um, I'm blanket statement here, but martial arts mindset, discipline, things like that, that absolutely are already practicing. Some meditation is involved in and there is the soft hard balance in Marlo.
[00:22:29] Jason: I was a martial artist for years. I mean, that was, yeah, that's right.
[00:22:32] Marissa: You know, so not surprising, but I mean, there's gotta be tons of martial arts podcasts out there.
[00:22:38] Jason: I have not thought about even doing that. That's wonderful.
[00:22:40] Marissa: Yeah. And then interesting. Also like martial arts, Facebook groups, martial arts Instagrams, right. So visibility marketing is going wherever there's already these established audiences, which if you've been doing it consciously or not, that's what you've been doing with the mom. Coaches is you've been going to these people who already have an established audience and say, Hey, can I offer value to your audience? Or can you refer me anybody or whatever. So that would be the same concept, but trying to get it closer to going straight, bringing the message straight to the people, martial arts. Another thing that comes up to me, I just did this for another client, some research on the body building market.
Interesting and body building is like, when you look at hashtags on like Instagram for body building, there are. Hundreds of them and they all have thousands and thousands of posts. I would be careful in the body building market because you're gonna have the jacked bros, like exact opposite of what you're trying to do and who you're trying to reach.
But in that market, I have a re so on that thread, there was one podcast called more plates, more dates and I like busted laughing when I'm doing this research. So that's not the right angle, but maybe the mindset, the discipline type stuff in bodybuilding, triathletes, marathon runners, that could be another place.
[00:24:03] Jason: Have you ever heard by the way, there's a term you might, if you're looking at bodybuilder, you might see it's called body weight culture. So body weight culture is his body weight exercises, you know, so the idea of like, you know, not using, you know, any equipment, just, you know, using your own body weight to exercise, but there's a whole history of body weight culture that has it. It is adjacent to sort of martial arts and, and wrestling, but it's also it has a lot of movement based. There is some mindset work involved. So body weight culture would be a neat thing if you're already looking at that, but I'm gonna check that out. It's a nice reminder.
[00:24:37] Marissa: Yeah. So what I'm like, could we find Men who want to dismantle from the patriarchy podcasts? Yes, we could. There's probably two . Right. But can we, like you said, I love this word adjacent that they, that you use. Can we go in the sports route? Can we go in the marathon and like performance route? Can we go in the martial arts route and then send a message that matches your program and a message that matches what some of these men might be craving, but they didn't even know it till they heard it.
[00:25:10] Jason: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I know that's important.
[00:25:13] Marissa: And then I have one more idea. And this is a little more out of the box, but I've had it work for some of my students really well, is things like trade shows, right. In person events and setting up a booth. but literally having them, like when they walk by your booth, they sign up for your opt-in or whatever.
So they still get on your email list and they're still going into your online business. You're just actually getting in front of them in person trade shows, conferences, things like that.
[00:25:46] Jason: Usually that's actually something that. I would love to do, to be honest. That's a I gave you my email. It's the, it's @nourishedconnections.com so that's the parent company that I run. And journeymen is the name of the men's coaching, but nourish connections was originally, I was doing this kind of work with whole families and this idea of like connecting through family meals and, and, you know, all of this thing. So I did actually a couple things where I would, my favorite one, i, we had a bread festival here in, in, in Vermont. And so that sounds fun. oh, it was great. And it was, it was really fun. But my whole, a lot of the pedagogy, a lot of the work that I do is based on increasing. The magic of the mundane, right. Increasing the value of everyday life. Right. And so in this festival, which is in some ways, every festival is the definition of not mundane, right?
You go off into some great adventure to do this festival thing. Yeah. I created a mundane world. So in the festival I built a, an outdoor living room and kitchen. And had like living, I had like a couch and a carpet and some games, but then I also was doing a workshop on how to make sourdough flat breads. And so people would come in, do flat breads, but it was all a, an experience for me to then get an opt in and get an email for nourished connections, where I was running a family based program. For having values based, everyday experiences and, and increasing that. And so those are the things you're, you know what, it's funny.
I haven't thought about that experience in a long time, but. Figuring out which trade shows or conferences or things to do would be the next step. But I would love to I'm good in person. I like doing that kind of stuff.
[00:27:31] Marissa: So even like farmers' market, like I know that sounds crazy, but like our locals farmers, our local farmers' market, there's a booth for a chiropractor. There's a booth, not, it's not just produce at ours. So if you have really catchy signage, if you have really catchy stuff that could work in person, you know, it's probably the wives and girlfriends that are dragging their partners to the farmer's market on Saturday morning, let's go look at them. Let's get some totally like being stereotyping here or whatever. But like, if they're drugged to that place, can you grab them there? Right. So I know like a lot of, I don't wanna go sit at a booth every Saturday or whatever, like isn't online marketing, supposed to replace some of this stuff. Yeah, for sure.
But also there's something cool about a, going to a little old school where it's not saturated, right. If there's 20 coaches all trying to get people's attention on Instagram and you're at the trade show or you're at the farmer's market or you're at the festival. You know? No, it's a great, idea's cool.
Like there. So these are ways that I think we can get in front of the men more. I, I know I keep talking about Josh, but he's, he'll retire from the army anytime. , we're just waiting for them to tell us when, and then we'll be leaving, he's opening a scuba business. And so in Arizona, there's a lot of outdoor adventures.
I don't know if you've heard of Overland journal Overland stuff.
[00:28:58] Jason: No. What is that?
[00:28:59] Marissa: Overland sounds familiar. It's like four wheeling, but also like nomadic lifestyle and stuff like that. Overland journal is headquartered in my hometown Prescot Arizona. So they have a, an outdoor summit every year.
And so I'm like get a booth for scuba diving and you could be enrolling people in your like discover scuba entry level thing while they're at this outdoor summit outdoor conference thing, you know,
[00:29:25] Jason: that's exactly. I mean, that just gave me chills because that's exact, you know, again, we can, you know, I'd really, I'd like to share a little more about the actual program that I'm doing, but that would be ideal because the idea of like nomadic lifestyle, Overland, you know, outdoor summit, all of that, that is very well established in men, you know?
Yeah. We do that. The work that I do is around taking that adventure experience, adventure mindset and bringing it home. You know, literally doing the dishes, cleaning the toilet, changing the diapers, you know, how do you hold that adventure spirit in the stuff that has to happen every day?
[00:30:02] Marissa: Yeah. And the stuff that sucks or whatever. Right.
[00:30:04] Jason: Yeah. But going to a place that already had, like, I love the idea. I don't even know the outdoor summit, but like doing something like that,
[00:30:12] Marissa: because Vermont's gonna have to, of that stuff, new, England's gonna have ton of that stuff too.
[00:30:16] Jason: Oh yeah. And you know, farmer's markets, it's funny you say that my wife and I had a farmer's market business for seven years.
I mean, we, so I love doing that. I don't necessarily wanna do it every Saturday just because I, after doing it every Saturday for eight years, but conferences and workshops and more things like that, I would, I'm really gonna look at that. Cuz I would love that that would be, you know, one offs that are gonna get a big group of people walking by that's. That would be something that I really excited about.
[00:30:43] Marissa: I would look into like, like some ski stuff, like in snow or whatever, like they might have some ski snowboarder. Stuff, an annual something mm-hmm got it.
[00:30:55] Jason: Yeah. And like I said, annual somethings. Yeah. An annual something.
[00:30:59] Marissa: Yeah. But that's what I'm thinking.
Like where are the men going? And it might be like a little bit of this conditioned stuff that, that they're doing because they think they're supposed to right. The sports, the whatever , but they're already there. And the ones that are open to hearing a message will hear you. Right. So you have to go where they are and you have to give them a little bit of a contrary message, which you already said. I like to be a little contrary, right? Oh yeah. So, um, giving them a contrary message and there's gonna, there's gonna be people who are like, dude, you're like out of this, like I don't, I don't care about what you're saying. Like, get outta here. This doesn't resonate with me at all. And that will probably be the majority, but yeah, the minor, the guys who does, right.
The minority who are interested. So I think those, no, I love that idea. Those are the thoughts that come up of like, how do we get to the men in general? Or like the men directly? I mean,
[00:31:56] Jason: yes. And I like that. I mean, you know, those are the things that I can definitely see, you know, myself, you know, I like being at booths, you know, like farmer's market and, you know, I've done all sorts of facilitation and, you know, keynote speaking and workshops and, and all those kind of things. So, um, The energy of being at a booth and having some sort of quick experience where people write their email down and I connect with them is exact. I think that would be wonderful.
[00:32:26] Marissa: Yeah. Conferences are cool because there's a lot of different options. You can rent the booth and be like in the breezeway where people are walking after the speeches or whatever, you know, set up right next to the water fountain or the bathroom or whatever. So you got like the best location. You could have a clipboard, you could even bring an iPad and just have your landing page and pull it up on the iPad every time there's a new person and just have them register for something, a little freebie right there right. Or even at a conference like you could buy, um, an ad in the program. Right. So you don't even have to have the booth. I know you liked the person, the in person stuff, but you could just get an ad in the program. And if there's 300 people that attended that conference that are all 300 of your ideal customer, and they're flipping through the program and see your ad, I mean, go for it by like a full page like really well, nicely designed ad. Yeah. It's an, it's an expense, but it's an expense that gets you right in front of the right people. Yeah. You know, that's good. Yeah. And then speaking, like you mentioned, you can have, I've done panels before. I haven't done a keynote yet. That's like all my bucket list, but I've done panels and stuff.
It's fun. Tiffany McLean she's lean and make bank in the therapist space. I don't know if you've heard of her, but she, I watched her keynote, which was amazing. She's an amazing speaker. And while she was speaking, she passed around a clipboard and there was, you know, 200, 250 people. Therapists like ideal customer in that audience.
And she collected 250 emails while she was given a 45 minute speech, you know? So there's really cool things that you can do from like conferences.
[00:34:00] Jason: So quick, you know, I I'll do some research, but do you have any quick ways of finding conferences? Is there any other directories like that? Or is it just,
[00:34:09] Marissa: I think there are after we hang up, after we hit the end button, right. Ever I'll get you some names, cause I don't wanna take our time and search, but I have some other accounts that are similar to sacred sons that I think could be interesting for you to follow. And the one that comes up for me is Charlie with an I Jane speakers. and she has both men and women clients, but two of my masterminds went to grad school with another person who's open to speaking type business.
Like getting you booked and showing you where to look. And so I'll get their contact information for you too. Oh, that'd be great. Thank you. I think you can also like what, the way I found Charlie Jane was Googling speaking coaches. Yeah. And you don't have to necessarily hire them, but they might have resources, like, you know, a list of a hundred conferences for 20, 22 or something like that. So in their free content, they might have some resources for you.
[00:35:06] Jason: Cool. Yeah, no, I'll check that out. That, I mean, I just, as you can see, I love doing podcasts. I mean, you know, I've done a few already and even those, like, I just, while I was away, I had someone email me like, oh, I heard this cont, you know, thi I heard you on this podcast. Can we, can we talk? So any, any way of doing that is, is I think gonna be really helpful. So I'm gonna look up to those. I think that's great.
[00:35:30] Marissa: Yeah. So while you're doing some of this research and finding the ones that are on brand for you, or that are adjacent, that you still feel like comfortable bringing like a little bit of a different message to, you know, you're gonna wanna make sure that you're not going and like somewhere. That's just totally doesn't match your values. Some of that's totally off brand, but if they're, I keep using this word adjacent, cuz you introduced it in the conversation, if they're adjacent, but you feel, you still feel good about it, right? That it's not testing your values. You're not bringing you out of, into somewhere. You want to be. Then I'd still look at those, but that's gonna take some time and research to suss all that out. um, So in that meantime, that's when you can be pitching the mom podcast or reconnecting with these mom. Yes. Places that you're already, you know, already established with, keep that going. So you're still getting the referrals, but know that like I'm researching these other places to go.
[00:36:24] Jason: Got it. And in the podcast,
[00:36:26] Marissa: the podcast space, you can do these same These same categories, we've identified outdoor adventure, like marathon performance kind of thing. Martial arts, you can look for those events and festivals and conferences, but you can also look for those podcasts as well.
[00:36:43] Jason: That's perfect. Awesome.
[00:36:45] Marissa: The people who run the podcasts are also maybe the people who run the events,
[00:36:51] Jason: the bigger ones, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:36:53] Marissa: So it's an ecosystem.
[00:36:55] Jason: The other adjacent one, which is not really where we've talked about, but it is similar is in the food world. Cause that's something I have a lot to offer and there are more and more guys who are getting into that. there're more and more, you know, so I think, you know, more and more guys are getting to it at home. I think they've always got into it in restaurants, you know, home based cooking I think is so that's another one that I'm writing down to, to be check out
[00:37:16] Marissa: um, beer brewing, home brew, or that comes up for me. Maybe like a home still type situation, cuz I know that kind of got popular recently. Like all these pandemic hobbies right. The sourdough bread, the home brew.
[00:37:31] Jason: I was gonna say I had a sourdough class going for a while that I was running yeah.
[00:37:35] Marissa: So like I, I think just getting those wheels working, like we've opened a few doors today, but there'll probably be even more and more ideas that pop in.
[00:37:44] Jason: No, I love that. That's great. And it all does really fit well with the whole, like we were talking about the pedagogy or the, the underlying foundation of my program is about these kinds of like taking all of those things that we used to have to go out into the world for and bringing them into, into the power of being at home with your family and, you know, for fathers, right. It's so important. So, you know, great.
[00:38:10] Marissa: It's a role. I mean, this is I've, I've not done a lot of research on this. I'm sure you have, but it's a role that in the last hundred years has changed dramatically. Like the way that my grandfather was in the home versus the way my father was in the home, versus the way Josh's in the home are just like night and day and then night and day again, different. So, you know, I understand. I it's just like you're, I don't know how to say what I'm trying to say. Like you're really bringing light to something that men probably didn't even pay much attention to 50, 60 years ago, like, oh yeah, I'm a dad, whatever. But like, it's become an identity. It's become a source of pride and something that the right, not the right, the men that are your ideal customer, want to Excel at.
[00:39:05] Jason: Right. Well, and that's exactly what is really important is now it becomes, it's become an identity. It's become something you be proud of. And there are very little models for it. And that's really, you know, and the fascinating which again, I have done the research is. Hundred, you know, 50, a hundred years ago was radically different, but if we go further back, it was, there's a long history of men being really nurturing and really, you know, like we're actually not doing something new.
We're bringing something back. More like, oh it's really powerful. It's just really nice.
[00:39:34] Marissa: Yeah. Goosebumps again. That's. It's so funny. There's so many parallels here because that's what I see as part of my work in rooted. I say what's my tagline. Now I gotta remember it on the spot. Oh remember your magic, reconnect to nature and reclaim your power and remember your magic. I tell this story about grandma's soup, right? Someone in the family gets sick and you make up grandma's soup and they're better in 24 hours. It's this magical soup magic. Well, right, exactly.
Because it was her grandma's recipe and it was her grandma's recipe. And back then herbs were magic. Herbs were healing. Right. And so we just have we're cooking the soup, but we don't remember why we don't, we don't know why we do it. It's just this thing that we do. And so trying to bring some of that wisdom forward and remembering it and reclaiming it.
[00:40:21] Jason: Since you use, remember as a word, I'll just share as something that I. You know, borrowed from the narrative therapy world, but I love words, right? I think words are really powerful. We use that a lot and anytime I use the word, remember I put a dash after the re, so we're remembering the people from our past.
Yeah. And so that, you know, when you, when you bring great, great, great grandmothers back into membership of your own life, that's the, you know, that's the power of that? Oh my God. I've got a project that I'm it's not quite, even yet on the waiting table. It's out here, but I'm doing it with an, you know, I'm hopefully doing it with another person who's, you know, interested in the same thing, but you've heard the term nutritive or nutritive density, like nutritional density.
Yeah. So we want to put together, and this is our idea. Just putting out that no, no ceiling , but putting together a project around gathering narratively, dense foods, instead of just nutrition, nutritionally, dense foods. So grandma soup, or what do you remember from your childhood? That truthfully is probably pretty yucky for you, but it makes you feel good.
And in moderation, it actually is healthy for you because it's got a good story.
[00:41:34] Marissa: So my dad , this is kind of funny. We used to eat a lot of like creamed corn and my dad would call it corn Jubilee, just like just changing the name of it so that we would eat it. Like, because if it was like a can of cream corn, no one wanted to eat it.
But he is like, we're having corn Jubilee tonight. So just little things like that, like food can, especially like I'm I'm Italian and my dad is full Italian or was. Was full Italian. Um, and so food is so such a big part of that culture. And it's a big part of so many cultures too, so, oh yeah. I mean,
[00:42:09] Jason: I come from a Jewish culture and you know, our joke was every holidays they tried to kill us. We, they didn't let's eat.
[00:42:15] Marissa: Yeah. yeah. So let's talk about your program a little bit. The one that is up and running and proven, I think I remember you saying is three months. Tell us a little bit about like where, when men are coming into the program, where do they typically what's their experience? What's their experience by the time they finish and what's that curriculum look like in that gets them there?
[00:42:37] Jason: Absolutely. So it's a three month program called journeymen foundations. And the plan words is many, but the foundation's part is we go over what I call foundational adventures. And just to, before we get into the very curriculum piece, this is really important is when we think of adventures right now, I'll ask you, what's the first thing that comes to mind when you think of an adventure, what's a story or a book, or what's something that, that, that comes to mind of the first image.
[00:43:04] Marissa: I don't even do this, but the first image that came to my mind was like mountain biking. like really fast,
[00:43:09] Jason: which is funny. I have clients who do that. Yeah. Going off and doing something challenging. Something, you know, adventures are thought of, you know, I don't know if you've heard of the hero's journey.
The hero's journey is the hero gets a call, goes off into another place. Battle, you know, climbs a mountain battles, a dragon, you know, gets the rare herb, tucks it away. Does it all backwards? Come back to the village and saves the village. Now, obviously that's very simplified, but that's.
That story is in everywhere in our culture, every Pixar movie, every blockbuster film, everything that we think like when we think about adventures or I got back from vacation and we went off to go do something. And that's wonderful. But it's only half the story. It's not you know, when we think of the hero who goes off about all the dragon, we never hear of the 20 years that hero spent learning how to use this sword. We don't learn about the foundational adventures. Mm-hmm . And so even though I love those stories, you know, star wars and, you know, uh, Harry Potter, all of those things, they're all heroes journeys. I actually believe they're quite damaging to men right now. Because if we're not legendary and if we're not doing epic things, we're not worth it. Yeah. And so we're pushed to go be epic at work. We're pushed to go and be epic so we can come home and, you know, and. The most important people who we say are the most important people in our lives of people at home and the people who we are washing dishes for and keeping a clean house for and living our values with, you know, and so what the journeyman program does is it teaches a narrative or a story about foundational adventures. And so it's the training for epicness, right? It's the way that we can learn how to make choices and take action. And that's really important choices and take action in the everyday little consistent things that prepare us for greatness. You know, and so where guys come to me, you know, to answer your question, but guys will come to me feeling like they're not as connected with their kids or their partners or themselves in a way that they want, maybe their kids are getting older and they're seeing them separate more and they're like realizing, oh, you know, I got feelings about that. Or maybe they're, you know, You know, their partner who may even be a full-time working, you know, wife and mom also kind of does everything at home mm-hmm and there's conflict about that. They will, you know, guys will come to me and say like, I'm not as patient with my family as I want to be. Or you know, that moment, this is one that I hear a lot of guys, the moment, well, pre pandemic when they come home from work and they either are sitting in the car or outside the D front door. And that moment before entering the home, it's like joy without well, it's something, right? Yeah. Without exception, every one of my guys has a vision of what it would be like to walk in to the home and almost with X out exception, it doesn't fit that vision. And so what we'll do through the course of the journeyman curriculum is help them to. Both share the vision with their partners and their kids, and then change it so that it's realistic for everybody and people can feel connected and then take action in an everyday small sense so that they can get to know themselves, their kids and their partners in a much more powerful and present way.
So guys will say I'm more patient I'm more present. I'm having more fun. You know, one, one guy just sent me a text. He said, I know myself better than I ever have. And I'm more in love with my wife than I've ever been.
[00:46:47] Marissa: Oh, that's amazing. Right. I'll take it.
[00:46:51] Jason: and so it's been amazing. And so really what we do in the journeyman curriculum. And I'm really proud of this. And I think you've probably seen things like this before moving from, you know, 20 to 25 years in the, in the psychology world, having a doctorate, having a master's and going into coaching. I do it a lot differently than a lot of coaches. And the biggest, one of the biggest things that I think I do differently from the coaching that I have seen is even though there's a group curriculum, it's their individual adventures. So a lot of group curriculums, it's like, let's go do this thing. We're gonna go do this thing. And you know, we're gonna be together this, so that here's the sort. The story description that I've been playing a lot with. If you know, so journeymen for me is an in, you know, it's a Tavern, right?
I get to be the Inkeeper and these men who are off on their own adventures, they're doing their own things. They get to come into the end and like drop their shoulders. And I get to, you know, give them a bowl of stews. We sit by the fire and you know, why do people come to Inns? They come cuz they need to be nourished.
They come because they need information, right? They've gotta talk to the this, the shady character in the corner to get some information, they need a quest, they need some training. They need to rest. They need, you know, all of those things. And so rather than me taking a bunch of guys and going off and doing climbing a mountain, I'm holding space for guys who are doing that to come in, get some training, get some, some food, get some space and then I can help lead them in, you know, I give them a map and I can help lead them into a new place that they're, they can do it differently.
That's incredible. Like I'm like getting like, so emotional listening to talk about that. that's incredible. I love the way that you have just phrased that total aside. Have you read the wheel of time series? Well, of course, yes.
[00:48:47] Marissa: I'm rereading it right now with this lens of like the masculine energy and the feminine energy. And I find it really fascinating because it's that hero's journey for sure. But a lot of like ins there's, like ins could be a whole nother character in that series. Right. And what you're talking about and how, how women are rising in their power. And then men are reclaiming this power that they were essentially emasculated from. And now they're reclaiming it. That I think that's a really cool, like, parallel just popped in my head cuz I'm like in book seven, there's like 20 books. I'm in like book seven right now, but um, there's a,
[00:49:22] Jason: if you're a reader, there's a great book. It's it's a trilogy. We're waiting on the third one. So if he ever listens to this podcast, please bring it out. But it's called the name of the wind by Patrick Rothfus and the entire book, the entire two books takes place in and in the Inkeeper is telling his story to ascribe. And it's the story goes out, goes in. It's what happens in the end, but what's happened and it's I, for me, when I was building journeyman.
I think about my favorite scenes, even as a kid, when I was reading fantasy as a child, my favorite scenes were those taverns and ins and those waste spaces, the cant and star wars. I don't know if you'll watch that, but like yeah. You know, all of that were my favorite place to watch because it was the interchange of ideas, the interchange of values, the interchange of anger, the, you know, all of the stuff that goes on there is like a, you know, and, and at the same time, it mixes my favorite, like, oh, let's sit at a table by a fire teller stories and eat good food.
[00:50:24] Marissa: that is so, so cool. The other thing, when you're mentioning journeymen, I'm thinking apprentice, journeyman master, do you have a continuity program for the people who graduate the three month like, you know, if they were apprentices, journeymen, and like, do you have their mastery program?
[00:50:44] Jason: Yeah. So right now, because I'm, you know, as I mentioned to you, I'm building the plane while I fly it, so to speak. Yeah, we have, um, there is, uh, the there's the foundations program then there's what I'm now calling phase two. Just cuz I don't have a, it, it's still sort of, it's actually changing with my guy. The first couple of groups I call my founders groups and so they are also inputting lots of feedback and things like that. So phase two is, is being built with them actually. And so phase two is a cha is basically they get to go through the curriculum again, with sort of a lower touch point for me, but I have you know, we call it, you know, there's a, you know, a gathering at the end kind of speak once a week, whoever wants to can come in and ask questions about that's cool, what they are working on.
And they get sort of, kind of one sheets about each part of the curriculum and they get a chance to go through it again, more on their own And then after that there is, and this is, it's an interesting, another difference in some of the coaching places, but it's a membership program but it's a membership program only for alumni of the foundations program.
And and that is, I have Sort of an overarching curriculum, I call it, you know, it's, it's, men's work. Right. And there's the pneumonic E N S. Cool. Okay. And so doing a lot of breath work for me, I have done a lot of, you know, different meditation and breathing breath work. So it's the in and the out breath of men's work.
And what that is, the in breath is taking in what you need and what you, what, what, where you are at and where you have to be. And then the out breath is both sharing it. And also being aware of who's in your context or your kids, your family, whatever. So the in and out breath of mens work would be M E N S M would be mindfulness.
And, you know, lots of therapists, we all do mindfulness, but I do it, you know, a typical way of doing mindful meditation, but also this idea of being mindful. Mm-hmm , you know, in the, in the work that you're doing, not in just what you're doing. So being present, right. So mindfulness for you and for others E would be experiences. It used to be exercise, but I broaden it just to be anything that is action doing. So what do you need to do for where you need to be? So mindfulness experiences, nourishment, you know, and again, that's a very broad term. From food to sort of spiritual or wherever, however you're gonna be nourished.
And then the last one, which I was laughing when or smiling, when you talked about TikTok and social justice, because the last sort of pillar for men's work for me is social responsibility. Yes. Cool. And you know, for me, connected fatherhood is social activism for sure. And how that happens. So we so powerful men's work is mindful experiential nourishing and social responsibility.
And in the membership program, we'll go through each one of those once a month for, throughout the year. I really love that.
[00:53:41] Marissa: So it does sound like you're building kind of an Ascension model. So you're familiar with my business. I have space holder, which is that kind of entry level course gets people into my world, gets them working on something.
Then we come into side hustle, which is like my signature program. We take the idea from this course and we build it all the way out. We build your marketing plan. We execute your first launch. You make money within this program. And then there's a mastermind off the back end that only is open to graduates who want to either refine for their second launch or, grow their audience in a different way or whatever.
Like just keep going on the same path. And the mastermind is twice a week and I'm just like it used to be who has questions now has a little bit more organization where they have certain time slots and stuff like that, but it's a year long commit. Where they pay monthly. So sort of like a membership but it ends after 12 months, they can re-up if they wanna, like, at the end of this one, I, I will say, does anybody wanna re-up and then if they take their spots, then I'll go to my current graduates and say, there's five spots left, three of the masterminds kept going or whatever.
Right. But it's so easy for me to facilitate because they learn everything they need to know in my signature program. So if they're in the mastermind and I'm like okay, you need a landing page for that. Or you need a sales page for that or whatever they have done it. They know what it is. And they can always go back into the alumni room if they need a refresher on anything or wanna, grab a new template or whatever, they can go in here and get it.
But I don't have to teach them. In the master, you have the language and the concepts and then yeah. We're all operating on the same page in the mastermind. And so I show up twice a week or twice a month and whoever two people have a hot seat that month and then the other people are observing. And then I, we have like a group discussion.
Like, did you have any clarifying questions for this person? Or do you have any observations as this person was on the hot seat and stuff like that? So I do kind of bring in like a community and group aspect at the end, and then we go on, right? So it's, it's like really cool because I do every round that side hustle finishes.
I have people who wanna keep going. So I've just made a container for that. It fills, I don't even have to sell it. I just say, who wants a mastermind spot first eight people to raise your hand. Right?
[00:55:48] Jason: I was gonna ask you, so it's eight for you for mastermind.
[00:55:51] Marissa: I do. I do eight because the way that, that, that works.
Each person gets six hot seats a year, which feels, you know, you know, a good solid amount. That's good. So they're going every other month. And then it lets us have two hot seats, a call, cuz I've done them before with three hot seats and then you have to shrink 'em to 20 minutes and it feels a little more rushed and it's hard to get everybody to pay attention to three separate people. So instead,
[00:56:14] Jason: how long is your MI is how long is it?
[00:56:16] Marissa: An hour and a half. So I do 15 minute chit chat, a 25 minute hot seat, a 25 minute hot seat. And then another 15 minute chit chat at the end. Like any questions or things like that format after running it a few different ways, like three hot seats and changing the time stuff that, that framework or whatever really seems to work well.
It's, I don't wanna say guaranteed revenue. That sounds kind of privileged to me, but it's a program that's easy to fill because my, many of my students who are coming from side hustle want to continue. And so I just make it available to them and it's easy to facilitate, you know, it's an hour and a half, twice a month for me. So I think if you have these group of eight and if you're gonna like expand that or let more people in or whatever you said you have some plans for scaling, but just having a container off the back end because you know, there's going to be people from each group who wanna continue in some way.
[00:57:12] Jason: Absolutely. I, it was wonderful at the end of my last group, two guys spontaneous, like, can we do a retreat?
[00:57:19] Marissa: Yeah.
[00:57:20] Jason: and I was like, at some point, yes, I promise.
[00:57:23] Marissa: Yeah. And a lot of the masterminds that I've been in have had retreats built in, and then you account for that in the price, right. And so, I mean, it's not a, it's not a requirement for a mastermind, but it is a common inclusion for masterminds.
[00:57:36] Jason: Yeah. And it would be, yeah, that would be again, yeah, this whole, before pre pandemic, I was planning already to, I was gonna do retreat out in Oregon and just, it kind of fell apart, but yeah,
[00:57:48] Marissa: but those are things that are starting to come back now and starting to be available for us. Travel is expensive right now, but like right. People are getting together so, you know, it, we've gotta kind of play those, like in person things, I feel like still a little bit by ear. But I think it's really cool to have on the docket and to have as an idea.
[00:58:09] Jason: Absolutely. No, I think this is really, this is wonderful and gives me a lot of energy. Like I said, I just got back from vacation and so I'm sort of raring to go on premium all back. And you know, at this point I am. You know, very close, you know, I'll be starting my next group, hopefully in the next couple of weeks. And so, yeah. Yeah, that'll be the exciting piece.
[00:58:32] Marissa: Um, so what was your biggest takeaway from our chat and what do you feel like is your first action step?
[00:58:37] Jason: Hmm, let's see. I think the biggest take, the thing that I'm most excited about, I think is going and trying to find some like conferences or or. You know, gatherings of some sort. Yeah. Because it reminded me that I really like doing that and I'm, I, you know, I can create little mini experiences for people right there at a booth that I think would be really powerful for guy.
Yeah. So I think that's a good one, but in terms of first action step, it's gonna be writing down a lot of these adjacent spaces. So then I can go and look for what's out there. Either conferences, workshops gatherings, things like that. I think that'll be a powerful thing for me to do.
And then I think the other piece is you know, I am gonna look at TikTok cuz I am curious, but yeah. Yeah, I think the other piece is really, it has me jazzed to like the next couple guys that I have ready for my group. I'm gonna send them another email and just, you know, get them excited for it.
Yeah. And. You know, I liked even, this was a little detail for early on, but you know, that I, when you were talking about slow pivots, mm-hmm, a lot in the coaching world right now. I'm sure. You know, is like, oh, you can do this. Yeah. I liked, I like to move big, but slowly. Yeah. Oh same. And yeah. You know, so I think feeling more comfortable doing that, um, this is something like, you know, lead magnets and lead gen mm-hmm I have always said, I get so upset that they're most of them are such fluff. Most of them are a waste of time. They're just fishing for emails. And I have always said I would never do that. Yeah. I, I, you know, so it's exciting for me to think about, okay, how can I do something that would be a lead gen that is really substantial and really significant.
[01:00:26] Marissa: What I'm doing for rooted is actually monthly circles, like monthly sister circles, and people have to register for them to get the zoom link, but it's not a. You know, cheat sheet PDF, whatever thing. Right. Um, so I mean, you could probably do something like that. Like a, um, I don't know, you know, not sisterhood, I, I like alliteration, so like sisterhood circle but like, yes, yes, yes. Brotherhood circle or whatever, like, and just have people register and, and create that in feeling that Tavern in a zoom room and have people sign up for it. That could be a lead magnet that you offer maybe monthly, maybe quarterly, pick your duration, or pick your frequency. But it would give value in a way that you're more drawn to. I think
[01:01:15] Jason: I like that. It was interesting, having those kinds of conversations are definitely energizing for me. You know, we went with the whole Roe V. Wade, when that came out, I just off the cuff, invited all of the past people who have gone through journeyman. I said, Hey, listen, Tuesday at three. You know, let's have a conversation and over 50% of the guys on a random Tuesday at three o'clock showed up and we had this powerful conversation, you know? So I think that would be a great idea. So that's another one.
[01:01:44] Marissa: Yeah. So in these adjacent spaces, the like meetups and the events, but also the podcasts, the Facebook groups, right? Online marketing, still on TikTok. I would look for look at the hashtag men's work again. Some of it's gonna be not what you're looking for, but some of it will be anything around like patriarchy and men, anything around like divine masculine. That's where I am hanging out is in that divine, feminine, divine, masculine space. But if you go to divine masculine, then see what other hashtags are being used with that, that might get you closer to what you're looking for, but it's kind of a door in but that's where I think you might find this stuff on TikTok and talks are three minutes.
So that's why I start, I signed up for it was because I needed to learn how to be more brief, cuz I'm very longwinded as well. And so could be just a place for you to practice getting your message tighter and shorter. It doesn't necessarily have to be a place where you're gonna count a lot of people coming from. But it could just be a place for you to practice
[01:02:45] Jason: like that. Yeah. Cool. No, I think I'll play. I'll play with it. I think it's a good one.
[01:02:51] Marissa: Cool. I feel like I could talk to you for a whole nother hour, but I know you guys just got home. Make sure you have some unpacking, ands tough to do. Where can people find you? What links can I drop for you in the show notes and all that stuff?
[01:03:02] Jason: Let's see. So right now the actual easiest is an email. That's the, that I think direct I really like connecting with people, so that's a really nice way just to do it quick. So for sure, you know, my email is Jason@nourishedconnections.com.
[01:03:17] Marissa: Perfect.
[01:03:18] Jason: Also, I would love I really, I'm not on Facebook much to do anything but chat. So if you want to send a Facebook messenger it's facebook.com, Jason.S.Freshman And I'm also on Instagram. Instagram is a fun one for me, cuz I don't post as much about journeyman. I just post a lot about my life. Yeah. Which is journeyman in action. There you go. People want to see what we're doing out here in, in Vermont. Please check that out. And that's just instagram.com. Jason.S.Freshman
[01:03:45] Marissa: I'll have all of those in the show notes and I'll have your email kind of be their first thing so people can reach out if my listeners are actually
[01:03:51] Jason: I have one other thing. Yeah, please. That I can send you. I did, you know, we were talking about lead gen and one thing I did do, which I will stand behind, I think is great. It's my guys, when I first started working with them is they were talking about having not a lot of time.
And they really wanted to connect with their kids. And so I went through all the things I do with my kids and all the things I've done with my clients over the past years. And I came up with like my 10 favorite ways to connect with kids quickly. you know, and actually went and did them all with my kids and time myself. Yeah. And you know, so some of 'em were like literally 48 seconds, some, you know, and I wrote them all down in a PDF. So I can give you, I have a link to that I can give for you. Cause that one is, let me just tell you, cause I'll get emotional. I have said the same 12 words to both of my kids before bedtime, every day without missing their entire lives.
So if they slept somewhere, I would call 'em. If I went somewhere, I left a little note, but the same exact 12 words, I love you for always and forever. You are my sweet one. Oh, and I have a 14 year old now who won't go to sleep without it.
[01:04:55] Marissa: Oh, that is lovely. That's nice.
[01:04:57] Jason: And that takes about 37 seconds.
[01:04:59] Marissa: , I've like been close to tears like few times during our chat, just because like your work just moves me the other place I would look, this just came up for hashtags, this would be on Instagram and TikTok conscious parenting. Conscious fatherhood had that conscious word is it's a little on the spiritual side, but like maybe another doorway into where you're looking conscious couples.
[01:05:24] Jason: Yes. Yeah. I love that. That'll be great. Cool. All right. So yeah, I'll send you that link as well. Perfect. And I'll have all those in the show notes. I hope this has been helpful for you. Like I said, a little bit of questions, but also just chatting
[01:05:37] Marissa: I, you know what? Let's continue the conversation. It's been a lot of fun for really. Yeah, for sure. Awesome. All right. Well, I'll let you get back to it. Have a great day.
[01:05:46] Jason: You too. Take care. Bye bye now.
[01:05:50] Marissa: All right. I don't think I've ever teared up or gotten goosebumps as often as I did during that chat. I just feel like the work that Jason is doing in the world is not only so important and so necessary, but it also has a really special Let's use the word flavor. Since we talked a little bit about food, just a really special flavor to it that I think is really aligned with kind of what I'm wanting to do and where I see my business going over the next several years.
So just to talk and connect on that level was really cool. I thought the. The idea of going adjacent to your brand. Sometimes there's not a direct doorway in, especially if your niche is small or a little offbeat or a little different. So thinking about these adjacent doorways that are close, and that will be like an entry point and then can allow you to kind of wiggle over till you find your right people.
It may be a little bit longer of a path, but sometimes. The slow and steady pace. And the slow pivots that we talked about a little bit on this episode sometimes that's the way that you get to that end result and to that goal that you're looking for. So this one was really magical for me, and I hope it was helpful for you.
If you are somebody who also wants to start thinking about what is your next step, what's the next evolution in your career? Head on over and grab space holder. Marisa. That was my kids sneezing there sure was again Marisa lot.com/space-holder. And this is really where we start talking about what is this idea for you?
What's this next evolution? We work through a six part system, which is the program type, the person, the problem, the promise, the price, and the practical stuff. And by the time you finish space holder, you really know exactly what it is you wanna bring into the world. I would love to see you over in that program.
There's also monthly coaching. So if you know, you wanna talk with me and be able to ask me similar questions as these coaching episodes, that's what you can find over in space holder.
There's also monthly coaching. So if you know that you want to have the opportunity to ask me questions, just like on these coaching episodes, that's what you can find inside of space holder. So Marisalawton.com/space-holder, and I would love to work with you inside that program. All right. I will see you guys next week with our final coaching episode and until then keep on rising.
