Creating a Lifestyle-Focused Side Hustle - Panel with Side Hustle Graduates
Have you heard the myth that only business coaches make money online?
Well I'm busting right through that one today and sharing just how possible it is to launch a program that helps regular people solve regular problems.
Two recent graduates who did just that join me in the latest podcast episode this week to discuss their experiences. They share…
What motivated them to start a side hustle
Where they got the ideas for their online businesses
Their biggest wins and challenges in building their side hustles
What they took away from Side Hustle and how they felt about their experience in the program overall
It’s a ton of valuable information, especially if you’re thinking of starting a side hustle of your own.
Tune in now to hear all the details.
CLICK BELOW TO LISTEN!
Show Notes:
Hey, risers. Welcome to episode 129 of Empathy Rising. Today's going to be really fun because we are meeting with a couple of Side Hustle alum. I guess they're recent graduates, but a couple of Side Hustle alums today just to give a little bit more of a dynamic conversation.
Sometimes it's just me and sometimes it's just me and one other person, so to have a few people on here at one time is kind of neat just to hear some different voices. We'll be meeting with Amanda, who has just finished launching her group program and enrolled her first members. So she is one who has made money within the program and done launching within the program. So it'll be really fun to hear her story.
And then we're also meeting with Siobhan who is launching a group program in the spring. She'll share why she has certain timeframes with her audience that it makes more sense for her to wait till the spring, but she also went ahead and threw together a workshop at the last minute. And she's going to talk a little bit about what it was like to kind of decide to just launch something and throw it out there and see what happens.
So it'll be fun to hear Siobhan's story as well. So let's dive into the episode where we will get to hear from these two amazing ladies.
Marissa (M): Hey, risers. I am super excited about this episode because we are going to be talking with a couple of Side Hustle graduates. At the time of recording, we have a couple of weeks left in the program, but by the time you're listening to this, we will have it wrapped up.
And this is going to be more of like a dialogue back and forth kind of episode I'll of course be asking them questions, but I really want it to feel more like a panel and more like where you get to like, hear what maybe a Side Hustle call would kind of feel like with the three of us just chatting.
We do have another student who might be joining us, but she is one who had a baby during our nine-month program. So, you know, she may be dealing with him. If she hops on that's awesome. If not, then all good.
So for the two who are here, we have Amanda and we have Siobhan. If you guys could introduce yourselves, tell us a little bit about what you do, clinically, where you live, and then also, you know, what your side hustle is and you guys can pick who goes first.
Siobhan (S): I can start. I'm Siobhan Flowers, and yes, I'm a licensed professional counselor supervisor. I'm in Dallas, Texas, and I've been in my private practice for almost six years now. Prior to that, I actually worked as a high school counselor. And in the state of Texas, before you do anything else outside of the classroom, you have to have also been a classroom teacher.
So before all of that, I was a seventh-grade English teacher for three years. So it's been quite an evolution, quite a journey for me. But in my clinical practice, I work primarily with women, just issues related to depression, anxiety, grief, loss, transitions, and since I had such a major transition in my career, I never forgot how it felt to be a classroom teacher. By far the hardest job I've ever had in my entire life, and I really wanted to now in my role as a licensed mental health clinician help be that support for those teachers who worked in similar environments that I did.
Teachers that looked like me, like, black teachers. And so that's really kind of what evolved into my side hustle was helping black educators, helping them to prevent burnout really is kind of my main focus. And so that's just kind of what has brought me here to this side hustle.
M: And I think that's really cool that you bring all of your professional and personal experience into this program. And as cliche as that sounds, now that I have two school-aged kids, like, I think about all those teachers and I think about that stuff.
And when you're not really, maybe in that arena, of course, we're like, oh, our teachers are underpaid or whatever, but we don't really... aren't as personal or don't have a relationship with the impact. And now that my kids are in school, I see it firsthand. So I think it's really, really neat, you know, what you are doing with your side hustle and then that, why don't you let us know what you're doing?
Amanda (A): Yeah. Hi, I'm Amanda Waldron. I am in Michigan. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and have my own private practice. I have been doing that for almost two years. Worked in the field prior to that.
And I came into Side Hustle, not really knowing what I was going to do. I was like, I'm going to do something easy breezy because in my clinical practice I do a lot with trauma and shame, perfectionism. So I'm like, I'm going to do something easy and fun.
And kind of what the niche that I fell into was Christians that are going through deconstructing their faith, which is part of my story too. And when I was going through that, there weren't a lot of resources out there. And so now my side hustle focuses on those that are deconstructing and maybe want to reconstruct their faith but want to stay within their Christian beliefs, and so how do they do that and navigate that.
M: And we're chuckling because you were like, I wanted to do something light and then you took on this.
A: Like alright, I'll do some more heavy topics. No problem.
M: Yeah. So something that both of you mentioned was that you're bringing some of your personal story into this.
Is that something you knew you wanted to do? Like, is that something you were missing clinically and you knew you wanted to bring a little more of your story? Or is it something that's just kind of happened as you were going through?
S: I think for me, it just kind of maybe a little bit of both. I knew I wanted to get to this place where I can help this specific population, but also I was actually seeing it show up in my private practice too, in terms of the type of clients that I was attracting, because I'd put my personal story, a little bit of it, on my therapy website.
And every time someone would contact me, they would say, well, I'm a teacher. And so I just, I really want to work with you specifically because you know what it's like. And I was like, okay, you know, Texas is a pretty big state, but in order for me to expand this, I would have to go the coaching route just with the limitations of my license. And so that's just kind of how it evolved for me.
M: Yeah. So you were already kind of like a quote-unquote modern therapist, like really embracing some bringing yourself to the clinical space, but seeing kind of the limitations, or at least the impact on the reach that you could have if you kind of get your license, right? What about you, Amanda?
A: Yeah. Faith has always been an important part to me. And so I kind of want to do something that could bring that in as well. So yeah, I don't remember if I was specifically looking to do that or if I just kind of, again, kind of fell into that.
M: Yeah. Do you feel that it's different? Do you feel a difference in the level of what you share clinically and what you share with your...
A: Oh yeah. There's a lot more self-disclosure with my side hustle, which is funny because sometimes my clinical clients will find me online and then there's a little bit of like having to navigate okay, like, you're seeing more of me than what I usually would share and a therapy session.
M: Can you expand on that a little bit? Cause I know that's something that a lot of people who are listening are a little worried about or a little concerned about.
A: Yeah. I mean, I try to show up authentically in both spaces. And I have had clients bring it up before that they've found my Instagram or something like that, and so like for therapy clients, I just kind of process with them. Like, what's that like, does that bring up any concerns?
I'm more vocal with my Christian faith than I am in my practice and I have a wide variety of people that I work with, both a faith and not a faith. And so we kind of process through that of like, yeah, does that, does that bring up any concerns for you?
M: Yeah. Do you take any extra, like, do you have anything in your informed consent or anything, like documented that you will be doing like offerings other than therapy? Do you have your therapy clients sign, anything like that?
A: I think the only thing I have is maybe, like, a social media policy that like, I'm not going to friend request you. Please don't friend request to me. But I don't know. I think that's something I want to think through. Cause I don't know if I necessarily want to alert everybody to be like, be on the lookout, I'm doing something else out there too. But if they, I guess if they find me, then I'll just address it then.
M: Yeah. Yeah. And I think what's really cool is that we get to kind of decide what we want to do, that we get to make that decision.
S: Yeah, I think similar to Amanda, I also have just, even on my therapy website, a disclaimer about the social media stuff and try to keep that boundary as possible.
But in my informed consent, I don't go into details about what my coaching practice is necessarily. But I do say that I, you know, have a coaching practice, and really it's just that, you know, they're not obligated to engage in any purchasing of products or services through that practice.
But it's not something that I really... maybe it's still a little bit too brand new, where it has really kind of crossed over yet. So it's something for me to think about though, how I may handle that if someone wants therapy, but maybe they found me through my coaching business or website. So I'll have to really consider how to navigate in the future.
M: And having them as separate business entities and having them on separate websites and things like that automatically kind of helps with that because you can say, oh, I'm sorry, you're in the wrong spot.
Let me guide you to the right spot. This is the right track, right funnel for you to pursue that service. Whereas this is the funnel for this other type of service.
S: Yeah. And that's what really drew me to the side hustle. One of the main things was the fact that we would come away with our own separate website because I've seen clinicians where they have the therapy website and then maybe one page on the website would be their coaching practice.
But I really wanted that separation just because with coaching, my population is actually person-specific as well. And so, you know, my therapy practice, I don't just see educators. And so I just wanted to really make that separation there.
M: Amanda, I just saw you nodding. How was that?
A: Yeah, that clarity is really nice to be like, okay, these are two kinds of separate things that I do, and maybe there's crossover, but they really are two separate things.And so yeah, if I'm seeing you for therapy then ethically, that's where we can fall back on our clinical ethics too.
Like, you won't be able to come into this other program, and it might work vice versa too. It hasn't happened on the coaching side yet. If someone's like "I'm in Michigan and I want to also see you more long-term."
M: Right, right. Then we'd be like, well, I don't want to have a dual relationship with you. So let me refer you to another clinician who I know that could, you know, help with that, but I'm happy to keep you there in my coaching program.
And these are things that we get to talk about. We run through these different scenarios and we run through like, okay, you know, and sometimes I'll play devil's advocate with you guys. And I'm like, well, what if this happened? What if this happened? And we talk about having plans or scripts or we call them SLPs, procedures that we will follow, depending on what scenarios we find ourselves in. And that allows us to be ethical. It allows us to also be in our integrity and handle situations the way that feels right for us.
So you guys are both like where you're at the same point. What's really cool is you also chose to go ahead and, and execute a launch within the nine months. And we've seen that some students are able to do that within the nine months. A lot of the students are kind of doing that in the few months after. We come up right against this holiday timeframe.
So depending on the program you want to launch, sometimes it makes sense to save that till after January or sometimes it makes sense to go ahead and do it quickly. Amanda, you were one who we were like looking at the dates and we're like, well, you could technically fulfill your program by the end of the year.
So we went ahead and we scooted your launch up like a week to get everything in. How was that experience for you?
A: Stressful.
M: Yeah. Yeah.
A: I was trying to reflect if I would do something different. If I knew everything that I knew now, and maybe I would have pushed it off a little bit, but I also think there's some motivation to go week by week.
So I'm super proud, like super proud, of the work that I did because it's like you do a lot, you learn a lot, you create a lot. So, yeah, it's getting done. My program’s launching in a couple of weeks, and so right now I'm hustling to make all those slides and make the workbook. So these last couple of weeks are also going to be a little bit busy, but after that everything should be creative and 2022 should be a breeze.
M: Yes. That's one of the things is like, there's that, that initial build, right? You're not only building your initial funnel, you're also building your initial launch sequence, and then you have to build your initial program.
We really try and piece that out into manageable chunks, but there's still times where it kind of comes to a head and you have to sprint through it a bit quote-unquote hustle through that timeframe. Is that what you kind of found for you?
A: Yeah, there's definitely ebbs and flows where. Yeah, at various points in the program, depending on what we're doing may take more energy or less energy. And then I think, yeah, naturally the end of it, where you're kind of doing everything, has its own emotional energy to it as well, and never having done this you don't really know what that's going to be like for you.
M: Yeah. And then what about you Siobhan cause you're like, okay, I'm going to launch my big program after the new year, but I'm getting... I think I'm going to launch this mini-type thing right now, and how was that decision process for you, and what's been the outcome for you?
S: Well, I think for me, it was kind of my own way of having like, I guess a compromise with myself because like Amanda said, looking back in hindsight, you really don't know what all is involved as you're actively going through it. I mean, definitely either for next time or even thinking back on this experience probably would have given myself more time.
But I think that's honestly the reason why I did it because I wanted to experience what it was like during the nine-month program. So I could still get the coaching for me and the feedback from everyone in the group. And just almost... there's nothing like having kind of that built-in deadline within yourself.
And so I know that all of the back end stuff. All of the stuff you have to build in Squarespace and MailerLite all of that is done. And I have a very thorough understanding of what it's like. And so it's going to be that much easier for me, you know, in the spring when I do launch the full program. So no regrets about it because my main goal with launching sooner within the program was to just simply learn how to do it.
And most importantly, not just like the tangible assets, but even the energy that's required from me. And so that's going to be a big determination in terms of exactly when I launched my full program next year.
M: Yeah. So did you guys feel like you had to have a lot of trust in me or trust in the program? Because you're both saying "we didn't know what to expect". And so was there times where you were lost or were there times where you were like, I don't know what to do.
S: I equated it to, like, building the plane while flying. And that's, that's just the easiest way that I can sum it up. But you know, I enjoy writing. I consider myself a good writer, but I was surprised, just for me, how draining kind of the nurture sequence.
There was like a lull in terms of me getting started in the beginning. And then even at the end, I thought, oh, well, I did the nurture sequence. The sales emails are going to be that much easier, but still, that was a challenge for me too.
And I pushed through and got it done. But just, but those two things, luckily you do it once you're done, you may go back and tweak some things, but the hard part of that is over. But for me, it just took a lot out of me to write those emails.
M: Is it the type of writing because it's copywriting and you are used to maybe more academic writing or is it, there's a pressure or an expectation of those two sequences to perform a certain way?
S: I think both for me, because with the sales emails specifically, obviously, you know, the point is selling. So there's a whole lot of mindset stuff, you know, around that. And then just not ever having done it before.
Yeah. I think all of the lessons and like the work with, you know, the copywriter helped, but just knowing that each email had to have a specific, you know, format and call to action, like a specific structure was just a new type of writing for me.
M: Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Amanda? Were there certain pieces where you were just like, I hope this works, or I think that's right, or did you have to have kind of an element of faith, so to speak in the curriculum?
A: Yeah. Yeah. I think there were times where, like, it's just a whole different mindset, I think than doing clinical work. There's almost this kind of business sales, marketing mindset that I don't think my brand is used to working in. And so sometimes it'd be like, I'm down in the weeds and like, what am I actually communicating and how. Yeah, here's the theme of what this email is supposed to be. Okay. Now I can get back down in there and do it.
So I think the volume of writing, the type of writing was different and challenging for me as well, and then I think for whatever reason, the timeline of the launch, like I asked you multiple times, is this it? Is this it? Am I understanding this right?
M: And it's helpful for me too, because, you know, being as honest with my audience, they know this is the first time that I've run the nine-month round. And so we ended up, like, there were a couple of people who launched where there was not as much. I would've wanted a week between like a week between the waitlist and then, and then the hype event.
And like you, Amanda, I think you were one where I ended up on top of each other and I'm like, let me go back and look at the curriculum and let me go back at the way at the scheduling for this because this is something going forward I want there to be more spaciousness around this. So it's helpful for me even to hear you guys give me this feedback in real-time because then it shows me where the curriculum can be tweaked.
And I talk about that a lot with you guys and on the show is, you know, it's never 100% done. Right? A lot of the stuff that we're talking about and even Shioban just mentioned it's like, yeah, the assets are built. But I think we have a responsibility to our audience to go back through our programs every time.
Like for me, making sure that what I'm teaching about social media platforms is current or what I'm teaching about these online trends is current. That's a big thing, but also like, Ooh, was that choppy or was that bumpy? Could that have been smoother? Could that have been better for me to go back and refine each time?
I think it's my duty, so to speak, as the facilitator of the program. So looking back as now that your graduates, or just about to be graduates, looking back, put yourself kind of like a year ago when you were making the decision to join. What, you know, what is the biggest difference between where you are now and where you were?
S: Yeah, I think for me, I had kind of back when I thought I could do it all on my own. I had actually attempted to start something very similar, but I always say like I put the cart before the horse back then because I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't have the guidance and the structure and the know-how of exactly kind of what to do and in what order to do things in.
So really this, again, it kind of gave me that roadmap to follow, which is what I can appreciate. And I thought to myself, and I don't even remember, maybe it was in another Facebook group that I first found out about your Side Hustle schedule. Like that was your hype event the previous year. And so I was thinking to myself, you know, if not now, when? Because this had been on my mind for at least a couple of years, And again, I try to do things on my own and they weren't as successful as I wanted them to be.
I felt like something was missing. So it just seemed like everything was in alignment with me discovering you and the timeline of where I was at with kind of the side hustle idea. So just making it a reality, it just all fit together.
M: Yeah. What about you, Amanda? What if you thought back to like yourself a year ago making the decision to join? What was that experience like, and where do you see as like yourself now a year later?
A: Yeah, I think for me it was, I wanted to diversify my energy. I wanted to pay off my student loans. And so that really kind of... I became aware that maybe I could do that through online business. And I was looking at you and another coach at the time.
And I decided to go with you because one, you're a clinician. So, you know, kind of the specific ethical and can just speak to that profession and mindset. And then coming out of this, I feel like even if I don't stay within the business that I created right now I have all the tools to pivot and do something else.
M: Totally. Just go back through and figure out who's your person, problem, promise, price, and then you can just start and build a whole new funnel and a whole new, like those skills are transferable.
A: Yep. So I was talking to a friend the other day and telling her about what we've learned and where we're at.
And she was like, I thought that was a lot of money for what you're paying for, but now that you're telling me what you get, she's like, it's almost like you get this whole marketing degree or business degree. So, yeah, just the information is invaluable.
M: That's what I try and like, when I'm on calls with people who are interested in the program, that's how I try to explain it. It's like an MBA in online business. You know, we cut out all the fluff and I literally teach you, you will have a business structure at the end of this. And I think that's really cool.
A: And I have other acquaintances on Instagram are like, wait, how are you doing that? Like, how are you setting up your emails? How are you doing this? And so now, like, it's funny when you start to teach other people.
M: Yeah. And that's how you know that you've mastered a skill - I'm sure Siobhan will agree. Like, you know, you've mastered a skill when you can teach it to somebody else. And Amanda, I think it's really fascinating too because you've only been in private practice for a couple of years.
So how did you... like basically you started your own business and then you started your own business again. So what made you feel like you were, like, ready for that? Or did you ever, did you feel ready for that or did you just feel like a nudge or a call to that?
A: Like how did I get the private practice or...
M: Yeah, how'd you decide to... you just started a practice. You're two years into it. And then you're like, well, let me do this other thing.
A: It's funny because going into private practice wasn't even on my radar, but I had some friends that decided to do it. I was looking at joining some groups and as I was calculating percentages that groups take out I was like, I think I could figure out how to do this and then keep that percentage for myself.
And so there was this kind of money motivation, and that kind of led me into all of this online entrepreneurial education I didn't even know about. Which is really gratifying to be able to kind of figure this stuff out and start my private practice. And so I knew that I had the motivation and the energy to do another one, and I was just super motivated to pay off my student loans.
M: Yeah. So you've mentioned money motivation. Money, motivation to retain those earnings for yourself and then you have a money goal of paying off loans, and then you've built the skillset to be able to be autonomous. Right? This is the word that's really coming up for me this fall is this idea of autonomy, right?
If we're going to live in a capitalistic culture and we're going to need money, we might as well make it on our own terms and we might as well enjoy the process of making it. And so I think that's really cool that you're like, you've kind of taken that on your own and you've said, I'm going to do this and I'm going to reach these goals. And now I have the skill set to do it in any way that I write.
S: Yeah, I think to piggyback off of Amanda, another thing for me, especially in terms of the timing was like the pandemic, because prior to that, you know, I've always had like a hybrid practice, but I had actual physical office space. And so of course, fully transitioning online and really discovering like, wow, this is awesome.
I think I could have done this a long time ago, but maybe the fear of like will in online, you know, practice work for me. I wasn't sure, but of course, the pandemic taught me. I mean, I had financially my best year was 2020. And so I was like, there's something to be said about the ease of being able to make money online and why not also expand, you know, further out from my private practice into the coaching online.
M: Yeah. So would you say Siobhan, for you, was it more money motivation, more lifestyle motivation, or something else?
S: I think lifestyle motivation, and then also it's just kind of always been this passion project for me. And so, you know, I'm not financially independent by any means, but it's not like I needed this to work, to pay my bills.
You know, I have some freedom and flexibility for it to evolve into whatever it's going to be. And my private practice is there for me, of course, financially in the meantime. And I think a part of me, well, I know a part of me, I want to maintain my private practice at some level. And again, in 2020 I was seeing almost 30 clients a week.
The money was great, but it was like, it was too much. It was just entirely too much. And so now I've cut that in half. Like I only see about 15 to 18 a week, and if I could even cut that down to maybe 10 and have the coaching practice fill in the rest, I think that's the ultimate goal for me.
M: Amanda you're nodding.
A: I have a similar goal of that kind of diversifying of energy that I think... I really love clinical practice, and so I want that to be, but I've kind of reached my limit of what I could do with one-on-one clients and having that diversity piece of it.
M: I love the way you're saying that, because I've always thought of it and spoken of it as diversifying your income, but you're saying diversify your energy. I think that's even more powerful. That's really cool. That really resonates with me.
So both of you, what I think is interesting as well is we're really working on a B2C niche, and that's one of the first things we explore inside hustle, meaning business to consumer.
You are working with people around their lifestyles or their life choices versus B2B, which is business to business, and helping other business owners in the online space there's kind of this rumor or myth that floats around that the only way you make business or money is by being like a business coach or doing business-to-business endeavors.
And both of you are working on B2C. Did you notice a difference with that? Or did you, did you feel that like you didn't really... I guess I'm trying to think how I want to word this. What was it like to go more towards the lifestyle route or solving a life-focused problem? Did it feel more natural because you're a clinician and that's kind of what you already do? Yeah. Fill in the blanks for me. Cause I'm just going to keep asking random questions.
S: I think for me it just felt like a natural extension of what I do in my therapy practice, but of course I wanted to target a specific population and then serve a wider geographical area. But just knowing I felt comfortable and confident in what I'm doing in my practice and how could I leverage that to reach a larger audience.
M: Yeah. And what about you Amanda?
A: Yeah, I think similar to what Siobhan said that, yeah, I think we're used to as clinicians kind of coming alongside people, speaking their language or giving them language. And so, yeah, it just kind of felt natural.
M: Yeah. And I think it's important to emphasize here because like the personal growth or personal development industry is huge. And as clinicians, we almost kind of walk that line because you know, a lot of us are trying to get out of that medical model and going private pay and all of that stuff.
So it's interesting to go from something more in the healthcare field which therapists are still, I think by consumers, therapists are still looked at as in the healthcare field. That's why they want to use their insurance.
And we, as the clinicians ourselves, are trying to position as more in the personal growth and personal development and personal health space where we're going private pay. And so did you notice that showing up in personal growth as a coach, we can put that label on it, or as, as a different role than a clinician, was it different for you?
A: I think it kind of showed maybe how much coaching I'm doing and therapy as well. So a lot of, again, a lot of those skills are transferable. The psychoeducation that empathy, the giving of like, have you thought about it this way?
M: I completely agree with you. Yeah, go ahead, Siobhan, and then I'll kind of...
S: Oh, I was just gonna say, I agree with Amanda. I think it kind of brought forth was how similar my style was even in my therapy practice, I'm very much like solution-focused brief therapy, reality therapy, all of these kind of postmodern social constructivist theories where there's no expert, you know. It's like the client and the counselor, our partners, and you know, I'm a guide on this journey.
And so that resonated with me in terms of the coaching piece. And so I think it's the lifestyle part of it. I did hesitate at first because of course there's this belief, which is actually true, that teachers are underpaid and I'm thinking, how could they ever actually afford my services? But then I thought like in my private practice, I recently just transitioned into full, you know, private pay.
And I still have quite a bit of teachers that are still, you know, seeing me and paying my full rate. So I just came to the conclusion, like it's not for me to assume what any one person can afford or not. I'm just going to provide a service and they can either decide that they're able to prioritize it, you know, at that time or not.
So I've just found that I've been able to kind of bust through that own myth that I had in my head that maybe teachers couldn't afford to work with me.
M: Yeah, I think that's fascinating. So we look at this in two ways: we look at the role of a clinician versus the role of the coach, guide, strategist, whatever you want to call it.
And what Amanda said, I find, is very common. I was already acting this way in session. I was already doing a lot of coaching or I was already doing a lot of guiding or whatever. The role really might not be that different. What then becomes different as the business model. Moving one to many. Serving people outside of your state.
And we can't ethically just do therapy and call it coaching, right? So we have to create a different container, which is what you guys have both done: defining a different person, defining a different problem that you solve, and a promise that you make. And I think those two are really what starts to set the business model and the container apart.
And then of course charging a different price or charging a different fee structure, paying in full or doing different things rather than paying per session as well as getting paid upfront instead of after the session is delivered. So those changes make it different.
S: And also for me, it's just having that set curriculum, which I obviously don't have with my therapy clients. And so knowing what we're going to be talking about each week and having it all kind of planned out in it was also a major difference for me with the coaching piece.
M: Yeah. Let's talk about audience building, because Amanda, you had like zero audience, right. You started from scratch. And then Siobhan, you had some things in play that you were able to kind of bring into side hustle, which I think is really fascinating.
But Amanda, let's start with you. Zero audience and you chose to do social media marketing, which falls into the content marketing category, but also requires a bit of visibility. It kind of walks the line between those two.
Can you share what was it like to start an Instagram? Everybody raves about your insights, all the students in Side Hustle follow it. They think it's amazing. They send their clients to it.
So did you just feel that you were kind of like naturally inclined to that? Or how is it to be on Instagram and then share it, if you don't mind share a little bit of your numbers, like your audience growth from starting from zero.
A: Yeah, I think I knew that social media was probably a really fast way to grow. I did some podcasts too but knew that I wanted that social factor in there as well. So I switched to my personal Instagram from personal to public and kind of took off that way. And Instagram was one that I was more naturally inclined to over like Facebook or Twitter, and then kind of jumped in on reels.
I follow a couple other kinds of Instagram coaches and they're like, that's the fastest way to grow. And so I'm like, alright. And it feels like play. I've done some improv in my background too. And so that kind of just felt... I'm an introvert, but kind of have this love of performing or being silly. So I thought, okay, that's the way that I can show up in this authentic way, talking about this topic.
M: That totally makes sense seeing some of your reels, like, I can remember the one where I don't remember exactly what it is, but it's like Ross is from friends, audio and like the way you... you did, you performed that. And so now knowing that you have some of that in your background, I can see where it comes up. Do you feel like it allows you to be more creative, more playful?
A: Yeah. Yeah. And I think part of my brand is a little bit more hopeful with this topic. There's a lot of people in the faith reevaluation sphere right now that can tend to be a little bit more cynical. And so I want it to be a little bit more like hopeful and playful, and I felt like Instagram was a good one to do that.
M: Yeah. So you already had some followers because they were kind of friends and family that you got.
A: And then I think, yeah, I got some audience through the podcast that I did, but I think most of my audiences come from either Facebook friends that I already had or Instagram that I've had a couple of reels get picked up and kind of go viral for me.
And that is a big way that people are finding me or I'd made connections with other people that are doing, maybe working with the same people in a different way. And I've done blog exchanges or had people share content.
M: So you've really done visibility. You've done collaborations and social media. So you're building the Instagram audience, but we're also really working to funnel them towards your opt-in and toward your email lists, because we know Instagram was down a couple of weeks ago and it was like, oh, this is why we build online.
A: Yes.
M: And so from there we had people get onto your waitlist. And then from there we had people, um, express interest in your program and enroll in your program. And all of that funneling converted for you. Like we saw with people signing up and taking the actions we needed them to take at the places that we needed them to.
A: Yeah, so people came in from my hype event. People came in from the waitlist.
M: And so how do you get people from Instagram over to your email list in the first place?
A: My call to action on my post, or I'll put in stories like, hey, don't forget I have free resources in the link in my bio. So kind of funneling them in that way.
M: Yeah. How often are you doing that? Like the straight-up follow the link in my bio.
A: Probably like 60% of posts. I'll put something at the end of like, yeah, resources and or support in my bio.
M: I love that. So how is it to actually stand out and promote? Did you have to market your practice? Do you market your practice in the same way and then like to do this online income type of stuff?
A: Yeah. I feel like I don't do that much marketing in my practice.I'm often full and have just relationships that are kind of, well, get clients to me. For this, it was like, yeah, a lot more active, right. Because sometimes I'm getting referrals from friends or family, but it's more like it's kind of shutting out to the world, like, hey, I'm out here.
M: And how is that for you? Cause you said you're on the introverted side.
A: Yeah. It's fine. I mean, it brings up... like this program brings up old stories, right? Like I'm sure many of us have stuff that we're going to have to... if you join this program, you'll work through like money stuff or yeah, like good enough stuff.
So it naturally brought up some of that of like, is this gonna work? Are people gonna connect with me? Do people trust me? But I think that's all part of the process too, right. I think you have to go through that and figure that out for yourself in order to keep going.
M: Yeah. Out of the three marketing types that you've tried, the visibility, the collaborations, and the social. If you had to just choose one, which one would you choose?
A: I mean, if we're talking just numbers, then social media. But I think the collaboration and podcasts are going to be those things that they're sustainable.
So, like, quick is social and then podcasts and collaborations are like those relationship building, I think, are going to be sustainable.
M: Cool. Thanks for all that. Siobhan, can we do kind of a similar breakdown for you? Because one thing you mentioned even before you were a teacher, is you were even, you were in like the PR space. So you have an understanding of visibility, marketing, not even an understanding, but an experience with visibility marketing.
S: Yeah. I was actually a news reporter for a couple of years, even before I got into education. And so just kind of being on the back end, actually being the person that was often pitched to for story ideas and things like that.
So, yeah, it was helpful for me to kind of, again, just know how to position myself and kind of, you know, messaging and branding and all of that. But, yeah. So before again, when I thought I could do this on my own, I had my own Facebook group and kind of narrowing down my niche. I decided to, again, just focus on black educators.
And so I had to kind of, you know, revamp and rebrand my Facebook group. The Instagram I started from zero. I had, you know, a professional Instagram from my practice, but nothing from my side hustle at all. So I didn't know that much about Instagram, but, you know, fortunately, I guess I was putting out the right messages because people were reaching out to me.
I ended up being a guest on a podcast and did not have to pitch for it. It was the black-on-black education podcast. And I know for a fact, if it were not for my Instagram, they would not have even known I existed. So, like Amanda, I identify like I am more on the introverted side, but I just look at it as again, it's, I'm sharing, you know, getting this information across.
And so just kind of putting that part of my personality aside, you know, it hasn't really been a problem. Again, I just know that it's an undertaking in terms of making sure that you're consistent. So it kind of goes back to that whole energy management again.
So really, it's been my Facebook that's really been successful. Lots of engagement in my Facebook group. Also, the IG that I'm still continuing to work on. And just as you've mentioned, just continuing to drive that traffic into my email list.
M: Yeah. So one thing that you had kind of going for you is this you'd been using Help a Reporter Out for your practice. And from there you were able to get featured in Essence Magazine, which is a huge deal.
S: So back last summer, you know, there's a lot of articles and just, you know, publicity around just the general, you know, mental wellness of black people. And so I was featured, it was a Self Magazine article, you know, 10 ways that you can take care of yourself.
And it featured all black therapists that were providing, you know, advice and guidance and things like that. And that obviously lived on the internet and continues to live on there. And so fast forward, I found out a reporter from Essence Magazine was just looking to connect with black therapists for a cover story that she was working on.
And so she literally just Googled, you know, self-care or care advice from black therapists. And this article, this online article that I did through Help a Reporter Out, came up. And so it hyperlinked to the about me page on my website. And so that's how the reporter from Essence found me and it just kinda went from there.So this article that I'm featured in, it's going to actually be out, it's the November/December issue, but that's just again...
M: You'll have to show us.
S: Yes, yes. So, I mean, and that was just an opportunity that I was just like blown away by because I mean, Essence, for my population, I mean, it's on a lot of, people's like top five wishlist in terms of let me be featured in this publication and this opportunity found me.
So again, just putting yourself out there, one thing kind of naturally will lead to the next and before you know it, I mean, you will have these major features.
M: Yeah. And I think that's really neat for both of you, is that simply by even... even if it was intimidating, even if it was nerve-wracking, simply by going ahead and saying, this is me and this is what I do, and this is how I do it, you've had customers and people purchase from you, but you have also had people reach out to you and invite you to be participants.
So we talk about pitching ourselves, which is something we need to do. But also the invitation can come to you, and then you don't even have to pitch, which is kind of neat. And this essence feature, Siobhan, it really kind of came to you from your therapy practice, but now you can use the logo like featured in Essence Magazine. You can now use that on your coaching website. And so it gives you also just more credibility.
S: Yeah. I'll definitely want to leverage that. Even in my Instagram bio, I can say, you know, "as seen in Essence" and all of that. So I'm definitely going to try to stretch that as much as I can.
M: Right. And as Amanda mentioned, these personal relationships. You now have a contact in the email address or something from an Essence reporter and you have a warm connection with them.
So let's say next summer, you have an idea for a magazine or an article just from you that you could either write, or you could pitch to be interviewed for whatever you now have a warm contact. And so maintaining those relationships.
S: Definitely.
M: Yeah. So we're right at the end here. Is there any advice you'd have from somebody who is like you a year ago, sitting in their seat, wondering, should I join?
Is this the right move for me? What would you guys say about Side Hustle and just the overall experience?
A: I think what Siobhan had said, like, if not now, when? If this is something that you're thinking about, I don't think there's ever going to be. A perfect time to do it, but next year is coming regardless. And so would you like to have these skills next year or wait another year? M: Wow, that's really cool.
S: Yeah, the time it's going to pass anyway. And so, and for me, it was so affirming when I did make the decision to join because I had no idea. It's like, I did not know what I didn't know until I got here and I would have never imagined that there's so many layers and all of these things that you have to consider.
So I can definitely see, and I'm glad that you made the decision to stretch it out for nine months because it was very valuable.
M: Yeah, it's funny because both of you were like, hmm, I wonder if I should have made it longer. And I'm sitting in the back of my head thinking I made the program longer and you guys are saying even longer, like that is such a fear that I had, like, honestly, and there's, I did a podcast episode about it going from the six months to nine months.
I was like, this is going against the grain of marketing. Everything in marketing is do it faster, do it faster. And I'm sitting here making my program longer.
A: Yeah, I think I told you that I couldn't like, I couldn't imagine doing the six-month program and not having this information at the end with like the most emotional energy came in was the launch and of that wasn't there.
M: Well, that's really validating, thanks, you guys. So why don't you share where people can find you. Share your websites that you built in this program, and share your social medias that you built, and your opt-ins, and all the things so people can follow along with your journey.
S: So for me, I tried to make it as consistent as possible. So the name of my overall brand is Balanced Black Educator. So that's the website, that's the Facebook page, that's the Instagram handle, all of that. And I do have a guide. It's just, you know, the PDF opt-in I decided to go with, just stress reduction, burnout prevention tips, in the PDF. And so you can go to that website and download the guide.
M: So if you yourself are listening and you're a black clinician and black educator, or if you were connected with other black educators who know that they want to prevent burnout and just care for themselves in a high demanding career, make sure that you check out Sionban's resources, Amanda, what about you?
A: Yeah, the overall brand is Hey, Amanda. You can find me at, heyamandawaldron.com and then heyamandrawaldron is my Instagram handle too. And yeah, Wonder & Doubt, that is the actual program for anyone who's going through a crisis of faith but hopes to stay within the Christian faith, you can send them my way.
M: Awesome. And we'll have all of these links in the show notes. And you guys, I appreciate your time this morning. I will see you later this week.
S: Thank you.
A: Thanks, bye.
M: Alright. I thought that was pretty awesome. One thing that really stood out to me is while doing B2C, so business to consumer, helping people with personal growth and in the lifestyle arena, there are some very big differences between Amanda and Siobhan's programs.
Amanda is taking on faith deconstruction and trying to do it in a hopeful way when a lot of the other people who are in that space maybe have a little bit more of a pessimistic outlook. And Siobhan is really trying to reach black educators who are, you know, some of the most influential people in our children's lives. And she's trying to help them create better relationships with themselves and a better relationship with self-care.
And I think that is just incredibly noble, but despite their programs being completely different, talking to different people in solving different problems, there were things that were similar about Siobhan's and Amanda's journeys, what they experienced in the program, and what they experienced putting themselves out there and stepping into this new arena.
So I hope that it was valuable for you to hear their story. Remember that alumni like Siobhan and Amanda will be at our open house tomorrow. So if you want to hear their stories, if you want to be able to ask them questions about what they shared here today on the podcast and just what it was like to go through the program and you want to hear it in their own words, make sure that you attend our open house tomorrow.
There's still time to RSVP and you'll hear from not only alumni. You'll be able to ask me any questions that you have about the program if it feels like the right fit for you. You'll also hear from our copywriter and our graphic designer who support the program while it is inside. So go ahead and RSVP over to marissalawton.com/openhouse. And I cannot wait to see you tomorrow night.
