Side Hustle Alum Ashley Chats Re-Engaging with her Side Hustle
All brands evolve, especially personal brands.
Why? Because there’s a human behind the brand. As you change, your business will change too.
This is actually a good thing, as the businesses that don’t grow and evolve risk becoming obsolete.
If you’re feeling this kind of shift in your own side hustle, you will really relate to Side Hustle alum Ashley, who joined on the podcast to work through re-approaching her side hustle through her own evolution.
Tune into the episode to hear her about her side hustle journey and how she plans to move forward into re-engagement.
CLICK BELOW TO LISTEN!
Show Notes:
Hey, risers. Welcome to episode 133 of Empathy Rising today. We have a coaching catch-up episode with Side Hustle alum Ashley. Ashley and I have a lot in common in the sense that she is a military spouse and she has young kiddos and she is working on building out this online income stream, online income empire.
Ashley and I spent a little bit of time catching up on the episode, just seeing what has changed with her side hustle. And also she gets some coaching on how to re-engage after taking a pause. Ashley is one of four students who had a baby throughout the program, I always talk about our side hustle babies.
She also moved while she's been building her side hustle, and has had hurricanes while she's been building her Side Hustle. And I think it's funny because those are the examples I always use of why side hustle is nine months and why people have lifetime access to the program. But you'll see throughout this episode that the support with Side Hustle does not end when our nine months are over. There are always ways to continue.
No matter how windy your path gets, no matter if you have to push pause, you can always find support from me going forward in the program and after you graduate. So that's what we'll hear a little bit of from Ashley.
Marissa (M): Hey risers. I am, like, jazzed about today. You could probably hear in my voice because we are going to be talking with someone I consider a really good friend, Ashley Comegys, and she was a Side Hustle Student last year, COVID class. And I'm like, was that even last year? I don't even remember anymore. And since then we realized we had a lot in common and have continued a friendship beyond the course room.
But Ashley reached out to me just to talk about re-engaging with your side hustle. One of the things about Side Hustle Support being nine months is it supports you over a long time, and we've had people have babies. Ashley was one of them. Did you know that there have been four side hustle babies and they've all been boys?
Ashley (A): Really?
M: Isn't that interesting? Yeah, we've had people have babies and we've had people move, which also happened with you. And we've had people have hurricanes and tornadoes, which I think also happened with you.Side Hustle is designed to get you to an end goal by nine months.
But I understand life circumstances, being a military spouse and moving all the time, and everything like that. And that's why you get lifetime access to the program. That's why the program is intended to support you for the long term.
And so Ashley reached out and wanted to just chit chat about some stuff. And I said, let's do it on... actually, I think you suggested on the podcast.
A: I was like yeah, you want a coaching podcast?
M: And I was like sure. So Ashley, why don't you just introduce yourself to everybody? Let us know... cause you are licensed in several states and all that kind of stuff. So let us know a little bit about what you do clinically, but also what you're doing with your title.
A: So I'm Ashley Comegys and I'm a licensed Clinical Social Worker, licensed in Louisiana, Hawaii, Colorado, and now Florida. My husband's in the coast guard. And because of that, at the start of 2019, I started my own individual private practice that was completely online, had started a group package when we were stationed in Hawaii, had a baby and left and just needed a practice that... or just needed something really that could move with us.
And I didn't have to do what so many military spouses have to do where you're like, oh gosh, what happens now? At a time where you have no income and you're like, do I get a job? How does this whole work?
M: Yeah, part of my master's thesis is actually the fact that military spouses make 40% less than other working spouses when their husband's the breadwinner.
So we already know that women are paid less on the dollar than men and military spouses make 40% of that because every time they move, they have to start over at the bottom and all of that stuff.
A: Yeah, and I think when we moved back to Louisiana it was that light bulb moment for me where I had been in private practice in Hawaii and really liked it. I had only done that because I couldn't find a job, but then I had the opportunity to have a quote-unquote, like, traditional job again.
But it was this moment of okay, every time we continue to move, it's probably going to be a lateral move for me. Like, I'm not going to move up a hundred percent in my career. And so it took some time.
Like I said, that started 2019 is when I like, I'm going all-in on this. I'm doing my own practice and it's going to be completely online because I had been doing that since 2014 at that point already. And I figured it all out. Had done a bunch of this stuff that I had to figure out when I did the group practice and then started my own.
And so my practice is primarily focused on working with women with anxiety, navigating grief, transition, and loss. And a lot of that is around postpartum, perinatal, mental health, working with moms, working with women, other military spouses. And yeah, like I said, I was already licensed in Louisiana then got licensed, why it was back in Louisiana and then I'm also now Colorado in Florida.
So it's been this... we moved this past summer and it was so nice to be able to move. And like I had to take the time off from work to be able to be like, I need a little bit of a break to get settled and not have to worry that once I was like I'm ready, the income was still there. Like my practice was still there.
M: So it's the opposite for you instead of moving and then having to build back up from scratch. You got to say: I'm putting this on hold for just a second. I can pick it up when I'm ready.
A: Exactly. Which was not the case the last two times we had moved for me. So it was a nice change. And I've said this to so many people, like, if any time I have been so thankful for my online practice is the start of COVID when I didn't have to figure it all out. But then also like this move just highlighted yeah, this is why we're doing, why I have a practice.
M: So, I actually have an episode about this coming out, I think right around the time that yours is going to come out as well. But you're licensed in multiple states. Why not just continue to get licensed in multiple states and just do more therapy? Why did you want a side hustle?
A: So even though yes, I have licenses in multiple states, I actually am not a big advocate of go get licensed in multiple states because I think a lot of times there's this idea of now I'm online and I can just work with anybody around the country. If I get all the licenses and it's... no. You can, but you're going to be exhausted. And it's a lot of work to do that.
Or you can focus on one place and really build that practice, which is what I did initially. Like I really focused on budding Louisiana and Hawaii cause those were the two places I already had been practicing with the group. And so for me, having a side hustle in addition to the practice is for two reasons.
One, like this summer, there was a period of time when it just was not feasible to be able to see clients, like clinical clients, just because I didn't have a place to see them or else I'm like, there's just too much going on.
And so it would be nice to have a side income where it doesn't matter if I have a private space to work with clients. And then also to not say well how am I budgeting, like the clinical, like counting how many clients a month, to be able to say to cover some of this other stuff because it's like no, I've got this supplement. That's not a problem.
We were really fortunate that this move transition happened pretty easily in that we weren't moved. We moved from Louisiana to Florida. It wasn't cross country, not compared to some other moves. And had it been long, like a bigger move, there would need to be a bigger stretch time.
M: Yeah. Because just because you're online doesn't mean that you can't just be in your bed or whatever exactly. You still have to have your sound machine, or you still have to whatever. And then if people are home, because when, at least for the army, and I'm sure the coast guard is similar when we move Josh has time at home on the one end.
And then when we move, he has time at home on that end to get the house set up and all, and to make the transition. And then you've got kids at home and your spouse at home. And so it's not you're still upheld to the rules and regulations of clinical practice online.
A: Yeah. Exactly. So to have that for exactly those same reasons. Like you said, to have the ability to not be worried about who's home or oh, are the kids home sick from school or something. So like again, just having the flexibility of not being concerned about if I do have to cancel. I have to say having my online practice, I love that it really does allow me so much flexibility.
And there isn't the same kind of concern had when I used to be in the office space that if I had a sick kid or I wasn't going to be able to reschedule those clients because somebody else had the office, but so I can move stuff around. But if it's something where I do have to cancel or like I've got a kid home because
I'm choosing not to put my kid in daycare right now that I could still work with somebody that's not a clinical client, which I can't do that when there's a baby crying next to me or running in the room.
M: So it sounds like a lot of lifestyle reasons coming up, why you want to decide hustle, but what about things like just creativity or trying something new? Was that any element of it for you?
A: Yeah, so I think I said that there were like two parts to wanting to do it. So one was the lifestyle, but also as I started sharing with people that like, yeah, I have an online practice. Everybody was like, really? How did you do that? Really? How does that work?
And so I would find myself being like, it's not that hard. And I think, especially in pre-COVID, everybody's whoa, I don't know about this thing, and so I had a lot of questions about that. And so it was this light bulb of huh, there's definitely a need here.
And then I love what you said about the creativity part. Cause I think that's one of the things I was like reflecting on recently is that in high school, I was an athlete, like I did sports and stuff, but I also played violin. I played clarinet. I sang in the chorus. I did all the musicals.
Like I was very creative side to me. And after high school, I don't think I've tapped into that creativity side piece nearly as much as I would like to. And I don't think I've realized that. And I think some of that comes like with hobbies and stuff and after.
I was even thinking back I used to, after college, make t-shirt quilts for family members and make crafts for Christmas and stuff. And I really enjoyed that. And so there is this creative side to me that I have not had an outlet for. And so when I got into Side Hustle with you and I was able to have a new outlet for this creativity and like designing things for my website and my PR, I really enjoyed that.
That part is... I think it's a little bit of the entrepreneur side of me, and then also the creative side that I get to combine those two and that's really fun for me.
M: That gives me goosebumps because I really resonate with that. Like being super creative as a kid and then you get into the real world and then you're forced into the nine to five box and things like that.
And I feel like entrepreneurship in itself is a form of creativity. To me, it's a form of creativity and it's a little bit of a form of rebellion. Or autonomy. Autonomy is maybe a better word there, of doing things for myself on my own terms and not listening to people necessarily. And so I feel like it is like a marriage of those two things.
A: Yeah. And it's funny you say that, cause I'm definitely like a rule follower. I would not categorize myself as like a rebellious person, but as I've been thinking back, and I think part of this is like thinking about some of my offers that I want for my side hustle and thinking about my audience. There is a part of me that is, that has always been like, we'll just find another way.
And I think back to when I moved in fourth grade to a new school district, there was not a strings program there. And I connected in middle school then with the band instructor and another student. And we would start to meet and play like strings together. Then we slowly started with a quartet, and then 10 people.
And then by the time I graduated my senior year, like what two of us had started was there was finally now a strings quartet. We went to the school board, like there was a strings program now at the elementary school level. And that's what I don't think I've always realized about myself.
When I see a problem it's oh okay, let's do something different to make a change here. And it's never been like this, fight the power, but it's this idea that it doesn't have to be the status quo. And like I said, I don't think I've always known that about myself because I think of myself as no, you follow the rules and this is what you do.
M: So what I love about that though, I don't mean to interrupt you, but what I love about that though, is it doesn't have to be the loudest voice that makes the change. It seems like you work within the parameters, but you also make the parameters work for you. And I love that you have so much insight about yourself about that. I think that's profound.
A: Yeah. I still think as I've reflected back and I've been like, oh yeah. If I haven't liked how this has gone, I have done what I needed to do to make a change. And when I, like, strung the pieces together of how it showed up in high school, how it showed up in college, I'm like, oh, this is a part of me that exists. This isn't just things I've done.
M: Yeah. I'm reading this new book called "Discover your Dharma", and we're going to get a little woo, which I know you'll go there with me, but your Dharma... and I am very new to this, so I'm not trying to misspeak or anything like that, but your Dharma is basically your soul's purpose.
And what I'm really finding is my soul's purpose is, right now, I think it's financial independence and autonomy to women-identifying people. But I think it's always to boost women and women-identifying right now, it's showing up financially. But I remember I was always the kid in school that was like, you have pretty hair.
I was always boosting women before it was cool. We were still supposed to not like each other and cut each other down or whatever. And in this book, it's like your Dharma shows up and it's always the same, but it shows up differently in different stages of life. And that's almost what I'm hearing from you.
A: So it's really funny that you say that about what your calling is because one of the things you and I were talking about before today was: What is my direction? Do I still want to work with the same customer? Do I still want to serve the same population?
And one of the things that, again, like looking back at how things are strung along, I assume like my side hustle was called raised to empower it with the idea of empowering other women to be like you said, have control to be able to say this is what I want to do to have that autonomy.
And I've always been about women's rights and about women's equality. But again, I don't think I realized how far back this is part of who I am and I have to find it. I know where it is, but like I was thinking about it the other day. So in middle school, we would do this year-long anthology program in eighth grade where you had to pick a topic and throughout the year you'd have to watch a movie and review it based on whatever your topic was.
And you'd have to read articles and like in a magazine and find pictures and write all this stuff. And then at the end, it was this really cool anthology binder. And a lot of people did like a sports team or they did a holiday or they did music. I did a woman's place in society.
M: As a 13-year-old.
A: Right, and like friends would poke fun at me and stuff. But when I think back I'm like this 13-year-old little girl, like, young woman was like already being like, yeah, like women have a voice, women have power and like about that, empowering each other.
And when I think back to that, I'm like, there's a reason why my program is called Race Empower. There's a reason why I work with women in my practice. There's a reason why mom clinicians are who I want to work with for that reason because I think there's just so many other things around us that it's so easy to just not feel empowered that I'm like no. I want to do whatever I can from my place to support you in feeling that power empowerment.
M: And this was one of the first questions I was going to ask you, but I think we got there organically is just what's the why? Cause tell us a little bit about what you built in the first, like your first iteration of your program and what you built through
Side Hustle. You've run it a couple of times now, and what you're learning and we're really talking today about how you can re-engage with your audience.
A: Yeah.
M: I want to talk a little bit about how you fell out of it a little. And then coming back with this Y represented and stuff, that's the arc of where I want to go.
A: So what I went into Side Hustle thinking I was going to do and what I finished Side Hustle doing are two totally different things, which is completely normal and beautiful. And so I also have to have the marker of COVID heading because that totally shifted everything.
So like pre-COVID, I was working on this six-month program that was going to build the structure of the practice, and then nurture the practice and figuring out how do you grow it? How do you build it?
And it sends a marketing system that doesn't feel slimy, but that is this nurturing of the practice, just in as moms, we nurture our kids, and for mom clinicians who wanted to move online. For mom clinicians to have an online practice because for all the reasons that the pandemic has highlighted, like as a mom, having your own flexibility and autonomy is so important. And then as having these decrees.
And a lot of times we fall into, like you said, not having the autonomy of this is what the job tells you you have to do. And so I wanted to be able to empower others to be like, no, I can do this on my own. So that was what I was working toward. And then COVID happened. And I found out I was pregnant and things just had to shift and everything was just like day to day, week to week.
What are we evolving with now? And the plan was still to run eventually the full program. But what I ended up doing was... by the time... I'm trying to remember because our Side Hustle ended in June.
M: We were talking this time in 2019, and we were forecasting a six-month program. No worries. All it's going to be great, and like halfway in, because we started January, and then that's when everything...
A: Everything just completely shifted. And what I ended up doing, and I'm trying to remember, because I think... I think I was selling before it was going to be a launch for January and I was timing it around like the baby being born in October and everything.
And so what I had decided to do was I just knew, I was like, I can't do the whole six months right now. Like I just can't commit to that with the baby. And we knew we were going to have a move coming. And so what we did, what I did was I shortened it to basically what was supposed to be month one of my six-month program.
I've turned that into a four-week intensive. And so I launched it during, I think, around the holidays. I did a challenge and that went really well. I launched it and I had a few sales from that. I ran it in January and it was a really great experience, but it was a lot of work to get there.
And so while I had sales, it was not what I had hoped it would be. And we used to talk about this. I think there were a lot of factors in play. Again, COVID was like, so very much like what is happening at this point. And so I think that was a big part of it. And like I said, I ran it in January, and then I did another launch in the spring of 2021 and I ran it again in May.
And from a launch standpoint, I felt much more at ease with it that time, I think, cause I've done it. Like, I know this program, I put some additional features into it that I was really excited about. And I thought it was going to pull people in. And it sold, but not as well as I had hoped.
And we talked a little bit about that too, that I think part of what I've discovered is that who my ideal customer was when I started Side Hustle, in some ways, it's still the same person. However, the world has ended. And so she has evolved and the need to say, how do I set this up quickly? Or just set it up in general?
A lot of people have figured that part out. I have found through polling in my own Facebook group and stuff, there are still people who need that, but not in the same, not in the same ways that I originally began to start at 2020. So I'm now at this place of trying to figure out what is the next thing?
Because I, in some ways I believe it is what was supposed to be the second half of my six-month program. But I don't know if confidence is the right word, but I'm struggling to feel like again, like, how am I re-engaging with my people, because I did put a pause after I ran the program in May.
I had to put a pause on my side hustle because we were moving, we were buying a house, we were traveling and I was burnt out from COVID from a baby that wasn't sleeping. And I was like, I have to put a pause on this for my own sanity sake. So I'm trying to figure out how do I re-engage. I know I have this picture of who my customer is...
I know what like little offers I'm willing to do, but I don't know if that's what I should be doing or if I should be doing a bigger offer. And I think that's where I'm just spinning in circles in some way.
M: So first I just want to reflect a few things back to you. You started a business in the most crazy time in modern history, and 2020 was a banner year for me. And, we know Amber Lyda, it was a banner year for her as well, but we were just already there. We were already set up for it and then people were looking for it. And it's like a little bit of magic.
I've actually been talking about my bookkeeper or talking with my bookkeeper and he's I want to take 2020 out of the metrics. I want to look at 2021's growth versus 2019's growth because it was a crazy year for me, good in my way, but also how many businesses went out of business that year. So it's just the marketplace shifted, you started a business during the craziest time and you made sales and you made sense.
So to make sales from your first launch is an accomplishment. If it's one sale, if it's two sales, it's an accomplishment because you're learning a brand new audience, you're learning a brand new offer and you're learning how you want to launch and how you want to manage your energy.
And what I loved hearing you say is between your first launch and your second launch, you had more competence in your energy management was different and you knew what to expect. And that's what I would want to see. Of course, we would love if sales grew from launch one before, but there's other measures of growth, right? Your personal side.
As the business owner, we need to measure that growth. So I'm really pleased with how things have gone for you in the first year since finishing Side Hustle. But what else makes total sense is you stepping away when it got too much. I always said your side hustle is additive to your life.
Some people have goals of shrinking their caseload, leaving therapy altogether. That can totally be an end goal. It might not be first. Like, it might not happen. Even the first time you try and shrink your caseload, you might be like, okay, that was a little premature, but now I can always take on a couple more clients. And that's exactly what I've done.
You've seen me do this before and I call this "faucets", and you now have two spickets, two faucets, whatever you want to call that you can dial up and down, however you want. And if your side hustle has to turn down, then you can turn your practice up because you know how to do that. That's this autonomy piece, right?
A: Exactly, exactly.
M: But actually you might want to turn the practice faucet way, way down, or off altogether, but let's say something else happened in the market and you could open another therapy practice tomorrow if you needed to because you already have that skill set.
And that's what happened in your case is every market is sophisticated. It's sophisticated itself and your work should be to also help your market becomes a bit sophisticated. That's why I put out this podcast. I was on a sales call with somebody the other day about Side Hustle.
And she said I've listened to almost every episode of your podcast. And I've gotten so far on my own. I just need a side hustle to get me the rest of the way. That's the whole point, right? If you're a diligent student of mine, there's a lot that you could do on your own because just from the free content that I've put out.
And I am not the only podcast as much as I want to think. My audience is listening to Amy Porterfield. My audience is listening to XYZ podcast and this other coach and that other coach. So they're also sophisticating themselves because they're learning and learning. However, sometimes an external shift in the market happens, like in the housing market. Exploding housing market crashing right there, right here markets in this case, we're looking at the course market, one small market and your audience was sophisticated by the world.
Something happened in the world where they had to get online overnight. And I know clinicians who didn't get online and lost their practice, just like I know clinicians who either were already set up online and it just, again like magic timing, like me or adopters who were able to just do it and ride the wave and end up okay.
The wave has now, I mean the pandemic still exists. I'm not saying it doesn't, but the wave of that initial...
A: Like it keeps building and you're like, what? Where is it going to crash?
M: I would say at least in terms of therapists moving online, I would say, I would venture to say that wave has come down now.
We all know the legitimate legitimacy of online. We all know that even if it's not our preferred way of practicing, that we should have it in our back pocket in case. And so in some ways COVID, if we can look for silver linings, not to negate all of the bad stuff about it, but if we can look for silver linings, like for online income, for me, it was legitimized.
I didn't have to do it. I didn't have to use marketing. The world did it for me. And then that's true of you too.
A: Oh, a hundred percent because I remember the week that like March 13th is always the date that will stick in my mind. Cause that was the day my son came home from school and didn't go back. And like overnight that weekend, all around us, stuff was like, nope, this is closing. This is closing. This is closing.
And then starting that like Monday, Tuesday, all the local Facebook groups for where I was of like therapists, counselors. Oh my gosh, how do we get online? What do we do? And I remember coming to one of our coaching calls and being like, I have all these people saying they need help.
What do I do? And I had already been building a CU that was gonna run about building an online therapy practice with a friend. And we're like, we gotta do this quicker. And then I was like doing all these like individual coaching and consulting. And I was like, I'd have to put it on like any things, like my initial offer, because they're exactly like you said it just, it happened so quickly that this, we just need the basics for you.
And if I had that course, it would have been great at the time, but I wasn't ready. I wasn't at that place yet.
M: But reframe, you did a cash injection. I think honestly when I'm hearing you say that, I think you were the inspiration of why I built cash injections into the nine-month program was because there are opportunities that come up and they're optional.
You don't have to take them, but if you want to inject some cash and get some practice and like you were these consultancies, you were making money on them and you were learning what your market you did.
A: Yeah. I had people like sending me their billers to ask me certain questions and stuff. And at the time I did it for a very low fee. Cause I was like everybody, it was just like that panic of we do this and I'm like, look, we can just do a simple like group coaching. Like, I know what I also need to account for my time with this and so here. We'll just talk.
So yeah, like that, like what you were saying about your own business, of like 2020, you have to look at 2019, 2021. I feel like that was my side hustle because the CU trainings and stuff like that, my friend and I had done at the beginning, they were like filling. And we're like, all right, like we're going to do a couple more this year. And they just were not selling the ways that they initially had.
M: So the unfortunate part, or let's keep the silver linings theme going, but the fortunate part is the bulk of, or not the bulk, but a big chunk of your program is what was not made obsolete, but was made different by the market.
And so you still had this second half of the program, that's the part of the program that you haven't yet run? Because you split it up and you were like, the need, is this the need?
A: Exactly. Exactly.
M: What an example of... I'm trying to think of how to say this. Like you rose to every occasion. You rose to the occasion. Okay. The market's changing. Let me offer some consultants or let me do some calls. Okay. The market's changing. Let me chop my program in half and give them this part because this is what they need right now.
You have a long-term goal, which we'll talk about in a minute. Is it still the same offer? But the second half that you have it run, or is your goal changing. But in the meantime you were, you rose to the occasion and you did what, what made sense?
And I think that's really powerful. I think that's something like I talk about, self-trust like, oh, this happens. I got it. I can do this. I made it through this. I offered this, I love this, and I actually think that's really cool.
A: Oh, I appreciate you saying that so much. Cause so much in so many ways, like imposter syndrome, as I'm like trying to re-rev up and build momentum again with my side hustle is this imposter syndrome of oh, like you stepped away. I didn't. I did not step away. I put a pause and I like intentionally use that language for myself when making, it was like, you have to pause, like this will come back. But this has to pause for now. And there's so much, that's okay...
M: I know you're feeling that, but as somebody, I'm not exactly in your target market, because I don't want to build an online practice, but as a mom business owner, that's inspiring. And that gives me permission to pause.
So I know it feels... I'm saying the word shameful, I know it feels icky, but for somebody observing it, it doesn't feel that way at all.
A: I appreciate that. It feels empowering and I'm trying to take ownership of it. Because one of the things I've talked with my Facebook group about is I miss especially with the move and just some stuff we've had going on with the kids lately.
I was burnt out, like after the move and I had to continue to be like, nope, this is a pause because I cannot function right now in the way that I need to, like in every area of my life. And so giving myself that permission to say this needs to pause. And again, like talking with my audience about it's okay to pause because I think as women and moms were like, we got to do it all.
Like we have to do all the things, but like we're dry, we're drowning and it's okay to stop and be like, nope, like we're not going to do five hours of sports every Saturday because there's no family time.
M: Here's your calling coming back in, your Dharma, so to speak. And so what I think we could do is we can take a look at the four elements, person, problem, promise, price.
Cause you've said your person is very similar, but I think what's changed for her is the problem is completely different. And then problem and promise are two sides of the same coin. And then price point. I would say price points relative, but that we fill in after we know what we're doing.
So I guess what I want to ask is like, when you envision yourself coming back, coming out of your pause, pushing the triangle play button again, I want to look at it from two sides. I want to look at it from the business side, but I want to look at it from the personal side.
What makes you think you're ready to come back energy-wise or passion-wise or calling-wise. Are you feeling a call, or do you feel like you're supposed to?
A: I'm feeling a call. I'm like, I'm wanting to tap again back into that creative side. I really do enjoy... I may be one of the only people that like, enjoys the business side of having a practice, but I do I love doing like my accounting and I love looking at numbers and stuff.
Writing notes is a totally different thing, but I liked the business. And so having the business side of the side hustle, I really enjoy that. And the creativity of almost like a puzzle of like, how do you put this together? So I'm missing that. I also see the need. And I want to have more income coming in.
Let's be real. So I think I do feel like I'm at a place where okay, things are starting to settle a little bit more after the move. We're getting a bit more of a routine family-wise, but I think when you ask energy-wise, I think some of what do I have enough energy?
I think that will be determined by what the next thing is, because if... I had written this note before our call today. Just like, I'm gun shy about doing another big program because I like the launch. Again, both of my launches, like I felt really good about, and I was getting really good feedback, but it wasn't selling the way that I had hoped.
And so there's part of me that sees I'm doing a huge thing again. Do I really want to put the time and energy into that? If it doesn't go the way that I'm hoping it will, and I'm not looking for I don't know a certain dollar amount, but...
M: Did we run like your green zone and your conversion rates?
A: Yes. And I was like, I think both times it was low because one, I think specifically more so the first launch, I remember like looking at the numbers with you and there was confusion of like, for all the open rates and like the number of people on the waiting list and people that were like interested in it, we thought that it was going to convert higher than it did.
M: And did you pull them or did you send the why didn't you by email?
A: I think if I remember, I did and I think I sent it up and it didn't set up correctly because like at first I was like, I didn't get any responses. And then I think I resent it and I think I got one back and I did do that after the second launch.
And I got more feedback that time. I think it was either the price was too high. They weren't ready yet. And I think those were the two things is I'm just not ready to start my practice and the price is too high. And so that's where I've talked about, like maybe just making this like an evergreen thing.
M: That's one of the ideas that I had. The other idea that I have is workshops.
A: That was something I'd been thinking about too.
M: Yeah. I think that data is all great, but we're starting, I wouldn't say we're starting with a new audience because I've seen you do Facebook lives and I've seen you, you're still talking to this audience periodically, not as frequently as you need to be.
A: Right.
M: But you've still hopped in once in a while and they still know who you are and your group still has comments and questions going on inside too. Thinking about your person, you said your person is pretty much the same. Has anything shifted about your person? Is it still a mom clinician?
A: I think before she didn't have an online practice at all. And before, she didn't need to be in private practice necessarily. It was just needing to learn how to practice online or I think it was private practice, but silly as you're talking about who she is. I think who she is now, she's still a mom clinician.
And I think either one of two things has happened either. She started online group or whatever her job was during COVID. And she was doing that, but still didn't have full flexibility because of the job. And she wants more, "I want to have again more autonomy".
And so she knows how to do the PA, to set up some of it, but like, how do you get clients? How do you grow the practice? And then I also think there are the other parts of her. So for her, like she's been online, like for that reason or somebody else who started the practice during COVID times.
But it's the same thing of "I've been online for a while now because I wanted to do this and I've done it, but I don't know how... like I'm not getting enough clients. Can I really make this work?" That's the two kinds of sentiments that I tend to find with. I've got the practice, but why am I not getting the clients?
M: Okay. So that's her problem. So that's this side of the cliff and the other side of the cliff is the ideal outcome. And your program is the bridge.
A: Yeah. Yeah.
M: The ideal outcome, remember, is the by-product of the promise because we can't promise the ideal outcome.
We can't promise you're going to meet Mr. Right and get married and for your marriage or whatever, we can promise you dating skills, how to recognize red flags. If you do those things, the by-product could be your ideal outcome that you're looking for.
So what is her ideal outcome? Like totally full? What happens when she's totally full? Paint that picture for me.
A: So I think those are two different questions because the outcome for her is she... like the goal is to have a practice, to have a full practice, but to have a marketing system or to have a way like, and I don't even, I don't like the term marketing, but that's essentially what it is, but to have a way of bringing clients in a way that doesn't feel like I've got to do all these things, throw it up against the wall and see what sticks.
Because I definitely started that way. Like when I first started out, I think so many of us do, and especially as moms we don't have time to we don't have time to waste. And so to have more of a system of, and again, it goes to that nurture piece of it's not, you do this one thing one time, but it's like, how do you use this and get that momentum with this thing and continue to craft in the home, this strategy and this system.
M: And I think it's fascinating cause that's not her ideal outcome. And most people that I work with they can see the ideal outcome easily.
And we have to reverse engineer the promise that you're going straight to the promise. So fast-forward the promise is the system, the promise is the system, the ideal outcome is what happens when the system is up and running. She's there for her kid's first home run. What's that picture? What's that image? That vignette, that movie.
A: In many ways, I think the ideal outcome then would be that like you have a... yeah, it is that you are able to go and spend time with your family, or you are able to have the time to do things with your kids or your spouse or your partner because you're not like sitting there spinning your wheels. Like how do we get more people in? How do I do this?
M: Pick one and draw something about it. Or like what were some of the things you did that were creative? You said you played violin, you sang, what else did you do that was creative?
A: Like I used to dance, but I recently... I like to do little crafts. We're in the process of doing some stuff at the house. So I'm going to be painting soon and sanding...
M: Okay, so I'm going to assign you like an old-fashioned collage. You can do it on Pinterest if you need to. But I want, if you have old magazines or scrapbook stuff, that would be cool too. But what is this picture? Cause you've given me like, oh, family time or she's with her spouse or whatever, but I want you to define one picture of that.
Mine is drinking margaritas is in Mexico on a beach. I cannot promise you guys, like the listeners, I can't promise that you will make a million dollars, buy your dream beach house, and all of this stuff. That's an ideal outcome. But what I can promise you is how to learn how to make money online.
If you do what I teach in my program, use it and you learn to make money online, then the sky's the limit. You can totally be on a beach drinking margaritas. When you're attached to that ideal outcome and you can see that for her, hey, you can paint that picture for her, but also it gets you in that place of this is why I'm doing this.
A: Yeah. Cause I used to have that vision, that picture of what the former climate avatar is, and now, yeah, I don't think I have that.
M: Cause this will re-engage you from a why standpoint, but it will also re-engage your customer because they get to have a fantasy too.
And when your fantasy and your ideal customer's fantasy lines up then marketing becomes easy.
A: No, that's very true. And I honestly think sometimes some of that too is I just need to carve out the time to sit down and really do this, because again, it has just been so like piecemeal and stuff.
And I was talking to Chris about this the other day too. I need to like, just dedicate if I'm going to go back in reopen the door for the side hustle now like I need to carve that out my schedule. Cause I had that. And then COVID happened.
M: And so I think this societal piece needs to be part of your promise or part of your vision. What does a feminist-empowered woman who stands beyond her social conditioning and stands and makes change makes her life the way she wants it to be? What does it look like for her?
Cause I think that's your person. That's how this thread that we've been talking about all the way. That's how that comes down.
A: Yeah. Yeah. I need to sit down and we have to listen to this episode again.
M: I'll send you the file when we're done. Cause it won't be on the show for a couple of weeks, but I'll send it to you.
A: Yeah, no, cause there is a thread. I need to figure out how to tie that into who she is for sure.
M: Cause one of the things, even when you were talking about I wanted to teach people how to bring a practice online, we both were very well aware of your biggest competitor. And there are now other competitors in this space. And so we were thinking about how are you going to differentiate?
The mom thing was a big part of your differentiation, right? But what we need to bring in here, and this is perhaps a secondary step, get your person, problem, promise, and price worked out. But your secondary step is what is my thought leadership here?
What is Ashley's thought leadership and your thought leadership is made up of your opinions, your beliefs, your passions. Why this for you? The more your thought leadership comes in, the more those three factors come into play, the more people are going to be able to say, I want this program from this.
A: I'm getting goosebumps as you're saying that, because I think, I feel like where I am now, like on this side of, it's coming up on two years, which is insane to think about since I started your program. But I think going in you're like, oh I dunno, like much more meek. And you don't want to ruffle feathers and stuff.
And I think exactly what you're saying. And then as I'm listening to myself process this with you, I think just like owning part of who I am that like, yeah, this is why I'm doing this, right? Owning that part of the values. And that it's, again, it goes to a core part of who I am. And how does that show up then?
M: All brands evolve. All brands evolve, and you are a person. Even though your program isn't named, you're not using your name and your brand. But you're still a personal brand because you're still a human behind the brand. So all brands evolve and all facilitators of personal brands evolve.
You as a person are changing and your business is changing. And that should happen, right? Businesses that don't evolve become obsolete.
A: And I also think too as you're saying that, I think there probably is a little bit of an aspect. And I think probably most people can relate to this listening that like we're so trained in the therapy room of not to share too much about ourselves.
And in our side hustle, we can be free to be who we are and if someone doesn't like it, it's not, oh, that's against your ethical code, but more so of this is who I am. And if you don't like it, then I'm not your cup of tea.
M: It's always comfort zone, growth zone. And then your growth zone becomes your next comfort zone. So that's exactly what's happening for you. You learned how to make money online with a program that made sense for you and solved a problem for people that you cared about solving a problem for.
Now that's a comfort zone and you're now moving into another growth zone. It's like shedding a skin almost, right? What is going to some of these things from the old version are going to come forward. Some of them, many of them, may not.
A: Yeah.
M: Last year I talked about, when I was in the Side Hustle launch last year, I talked about time freedom, location freedom, financial freedom. That was like my slogan for my launch. And I still talk about those things. But this year I'm talking a lot about autonomy. A lot about autonomy.
And it's the same program and it serves the same purpose and it solves the same problem, but I am different and I see the world differently. I see my program and how it helps people differently.
A: I feel like there's something here. And then I feel like I need to sit with some of this because there is just this part... It's not like I'm going to go out and would this thing totally change the world?
M: You're going to change some people's world. Your nuclear family's world is going to change.
A: And I think again, like tapping into that and like trusting the process with it and that I think I definitely need to lean more into the empowerment part and that is something that I've been dabbling with a bit, but I don't know.
I don't know what exactly that looks like as far as like the product in some ways, or like the offer really, because I have several ideas and I'm trying to figure out what... well workshop is definitely something that's been like coming up for me, but figuring out how to best funnel this one is a way that like, actually serves my customer.
I don't want you to spend money or time doing something that you're like, I don't have the time to sit down for four weeks and do this. Okay. So like, how can we get this up and running quicker for you? But figuring out how to channel like my energy, but then also the needs of the customer. And I need to sit with that a little bit.
M: If you were to like, take your head completely out of it and just what's the first answer when you think about how you want to deliver?
A: Honestly like doing a four-week thing or six-week program. I really liked that idea and I think it's much more feasible than a lot of times things I've done, like with other different courses and stuff. I'm like, this is so much that you're asking us to do.
So just a short amount of time that I walk away being like, I don't get half of it done or ever. I don't come back to it. And so something that is more, again...
M: What I just did with Space Holder—Space Holder is evergreen. It's open all the time. People can buy it whenever. But I just did a three-week live round. And I know a lot of people who have this business model where they sell a passive course or a course, maybe with minimal support, like maybe a monthly check-in or a Facebook group.
And that's it. And then once a year they run it live. And so they invite people who bought throughout the year to upgrade for a live price. And it's of course not the full price. Like they get a rebate or whatever, you paid 500 for the self-study and the full price is a thousand.
So you only owe me another 500 or whatever to upgrade. And then the people who want the live come in live at the thousand dollar price or whatever, but then they still have access to this. It's like a cycle. You can sell it self-study all year and make one live push.
A: That's an interesting idea because I think that's the one things with turning the Built to Run, the four-week intensive that I had into evergreen, which I do feel like that's the right direction for that piece for several reasons.
But I do think there was a lot that was still beneficial about the live component that we did a weekly coaching call. And maybe doing, yeah, like once a year or something in a live format, but yeah that's an interesting way to think about that.
M: And I think so if the promise that you want to make is this client onboarding, not onboarding, I'm trying to use the word, not marketing because they may don't like that. Client attraction system. That's the promise that you want to make. I can teach you how to attract and book clients on a regular basis that you can dial up or dial down, however you see fit.
A: Yeah. Yeah. I have to be honest too and this is where, and I can already anticipate what you're going to say, but part of the system that I have is it is my own system I've developed, like how I do it my own way. And a big part of it is through my website and how I've developed my website in a very specific way to attract very specific people.
And I'm like, okay, but if I am teaching like some websites, stuff like that, there's other people out there doing that. Like, why would they want to come to me and say, there's that part again, that imposter syndrome. And I already know what you're going to say. Like it's cause they want to work with you, right?
M: Yeah. Leaning into the promise part. You know what problem you're solving, and so leaning into the promise of or the ideal outcome of the promise, right? The promise is the client acquiring system.
And then the ideal outcome of that is this picture that you need to sit down and figure out. I think once you tap into that, that one collage or that one thing, I think that will fall into place.
A: Yeah. No, I agree too. I think so too, and I think I'm feeling invigorated from our conversation today in a way that I haven't in a long time. In some ways like it's felt burdensome at times, thinking about it. Because again, like the market has changed like 180 since like I started.
M: And then another idea, and this could be up your ascension model or up your ladder or something like that. But what if they already had their practice and you were just helping them live an empowered lifestyle?
So that could be something that you think about, and it doesn't have to replace this program. Like I'm not throwing a wrench in at the last minute. But lean into this calling. I would meditate, journal, whatever you do. And you have the insight of where this calling has been in the past.
And it's so fascinating because we're talking during Scorpio season and Scorpio is all about looking at this stuff and patterns and shadows and that kind of stuff. And I woke up this morning with crazy dreams about where this one pattern has shown up in my life a bunch, and I'd never even thought of it.
So the fact that you're like examining this right now is totally normal or totally like woo. Astrologically, normal. So you have some insight into where this thread, where this pattern has been in the past, maybe do a map of that and see if there's other significant points like, oh, the school project or this, or what was my thesis about what was the... just other places this has shown up. Significant conversations with family members that linger or stay with you or whatever.
Make almost like a timeline. And then once you have that, you can ask yourself in a meditation, in a journal in whatever: What's the next one? You're almost predicting if you want to go there. So like I acknowledge you, pattern. I see you, pattern. I respect you, pattern. Where do you want to go, pattern?
A: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's I really liked that idea.And I think honestly, I actually think that exercise would be like really empowering for myself, because like I said, it's only in times when I stopped and I'm like, oh wow. Yeah, you did figure out how to start your own private practice and online practice, like, without anybody helping you. Like you did go do that semester abroad. I stopped to think about that.
That's been where I'm like, okay no, it's empowering of myself to be like, yeah, you did this stuff. And it wasn't always conscious at the time.
M: Yeah, I've given you like five different assignments, pick which one you want, but what do you think has been your biggest takeaway?
A: I honestly think partly of leaning into more of who I am, as like the empowerment part of who I am as a person, and how do I bring that more so into the side hustle from a place of this is who I am, this is what I have to offer, and how I want to cultivate that in other people, in other women. So I think really...
M: That sentence right there. This is what I have to offer, and I want to cultivate that in other women. That's powerful.
A: Yeah, cause I don't think it's like that oh, I'm special. It's not like that. I think there is some, but it's that I have had things in my life that have empowered me to believe in myself in certain ways. And I want other people, other women, to have that same feeling for themselves.
M: Okay. So that's your biggest takeaway? What do you think is your first action step?
A: I honestly think like relistening to that. And then really again, like mapping out that thread and I think doing like a new client avatar in certain ways. And using that to help form that picture of the ideal outcome.
M: Yeah. Any other questions for me?
A: I have so many all the time Marissa, this couple be another two hours. But no, this was really helpful. And that's one of the great things about you is like there was continued support beyond the Side Hustle. And so I know how to get you.
M: So if anybody listening is interested in joining Side Hustle, do you have anything that you'd want to share with them? I'm putting you on the spot.
A: Yeah, one of the things that I think is really cool about what you offer and about the Side Hustle program is that again, like one there's so much support in the program, like to be able to talk directly with you and with other people in the cohort and to have those weekly calls, is really beneficial.
Because again, it's not just okay, listening, reading, like figuring this out, but like bouncing ideas off of each other and running things by one another and having that like, not companionship, but like community, that's the word I'm looking for.
And then also, I know for a lot of people, I'm sure this is every year, but so many of us because of COVID, like stuff shifted and pivoted and we're like, what I started out with isn't what I think I'm doing. And we could always like, you're like, just go back through the system, right?
Like just go back. And even as you're talking about here what is the promise, the problem. What is the promise that like... it doesn't have to be this idea of oh, if I am starting a new business, or if I'm like this isn't working that I have to start from scratch. Like no, you go back to where this part is in Side Hustle and you can work through it.
So I love that. It's the ability to just, again, use it for wherever you are, right there with that problem.
M: Cool. Awesome. Well, thank you for today. I'm like, this was just so fun. I just want to chat with you all the time. We chit-chatted before we hit record. So we got a little bit of catch-up time, but thank you for today.
I think this is going to be so valuable for listeners and I hope that you got some takeaways and I will talk with you probably very soon.
A: Absolutely. After all of this, you know I'm going to be like, so what about this?
M: Awesome.
A: Alright. Thanks.
Wow. I just want to say how blown away I am by Ashley's takeaway of just showing up more as herself. And showing herself to her audience and just owning these pieces of her that have been with her forever. But for one reason or another have not seemed important. And this side hustle is allowing her to
dig in. To dig into what really matters to her and to make change in a way that makes sense for her life. So that just was really profound for me. And it was a message I needed today. I hope that it has been valuable for you to listen to Ashley re-engage with her side hustle.
Pivots are going to happen, whether it's a pivot that you want to make because you've run your program a couple of times and you've realized there's changes you want to make, or whether it's a pivot that happens because the market changes or the world changes. All of this stuff is normal and a natural part of entrepreneurship.
It's something we just have to be aware of. We can also take more ownership during these pivots and turn them into evolutions. Brands are supposed to evolve, and as humans and as business owners, we evolve as well.
And in your online income stream, it can really be the home for that. It can be the place where you channel your creativity, your new identities, and where you do just figure out who you are and who you want to be and what you want to do in the world. And I think that's really cool and really neat.
If this speaks to you and you're looking for this next step of who you are, please join us inside of Side Hustle Support Group. Applications are open for a few more weeks, and you can find them over at Marissa lawton.com/side-hustle. And we cannot wait to have you join our side hustle. Alright, guys, I will be back again next week and until then, keep on rising.
