Side Hustle Spotlight - Marie Chats Keeping Your Side Hustle Under Your Therapy Practice

Some people come into Side Hustle with the goal of making a HUGE shift.

And are those huge shifts possible? Absolutely.

But you don’t have to reinvent the wheel to start your own online income stream. You can actually take something that’s already working for you and…

✔️ Tweak the parameters
✔️ Give it a new container
✔️ Ensure it fits within ethical guidelines

And BOOM, you’ve got yourself a side hustle.

Marie did just that and added almost $10,000 a year to her bottom line with something that was already working for her. Hear her story on the latest podcast episode.

CLICK BELOW TO LISTEN!

Show Notes:

Hey, risers. Welcome to episode 134 of Empathy Rising. Today we're joined by Marie who is a most recent graduate of Side Hustle, and she's going to share a little bit about her journey today. What I love most about Marie and think is really neat is that she came to side hustle with a ton of gusto and a ton of ambition.

And what you'll hear today is that her end product looks nothing like what she originally set out to do. In fact, Marie's side hustle is actually under the umbrella of her practice. She did not have to separate out her side hustle from her therapy business, which is something that we go back and forth on.

Is it the most ethical? Is it unethical to keep it under your practice? The answer to that is: It depends. And by listening to Marie talk today, you'll be able to tease that out for yourself. So I hope you enjoy listening to our conversation and seeing that it is possible in certain circumstances to keep your side hustle under your therapy business.

Marissa: Hey, risers. I'm super excited to be sitting here with Marie, our most recent alum of Side Hustle. And I wanted to bring her on the show today to share her experience with you guys because it is a bit different than the typical trajectory of Side Hustle students. 

And one of the biggest things is that Marie's program is actually under the house of her practice. And most of the time we're thinking about how can we separate these? But Maria has done something that doesn't have to be separated out, and I think it's really cool how she's managed to do that. And we're going to explore all of that for you today because maybe you're thinking of doing something similar.

So Marie, if you wouldn't mind, introduce yourself a little bit, tell us where you are, what you do clinically, and then what your side hustle is, what it ended up being, and then we'll go through that journey of how you got to where you are. 

Marie: Cool. Yeah. So I'm Marie. I'm based out of Atlanta, Georgia, and I am a licensed marriage and family therapist.I specialize in treating sex addiction and trauma. And so that's relevant because my side hustle is about helping therapists who also specialize in those areas. 

And yeah, I mostly operate virtually in my practice. And my side hustle is also online and virtual which allows me to work with a variety of folks across the country. And so that's the gist of it. 

Marissa: Yeah. Can you take us back to a year ago when you were contemplating joining Side Hustle and what were you looking for from a program that was going to guide you through this process? And then what made you decide that Side Hustle was the program for you?

Marie: Yeah, so I really... I love doing therapy, but I can get really burned out on the one-on-one process. And I was already making some shifts in my private practice anyways and was trying to figure out what were some other ways that I could still capitalize on my skills and do what I love while I'm maybe not doing that one-to-one model.

I had already run groups, and I still run groups and I run intensives, so I had exhausted those options and they were still client-centered, which has a very different energy than teaching or working with clinicians. And I was really just thinking about what are different avenues or options that I can utilize my skills, which I've invested a lot in while also taking care of myself. And then I came across your podcast. 

I really don't remember, I've tried to think all through the program, like how did I find her podcast? And I really appreciated the way that you respected kind of the ethical guidelines and boundaries of our profession, along with also making a side hustle work because a lot of the things I had listened to before just didn't feel values congruent for me in terms of I don't know that I want to take that much risk or cut that those particular corners no offense to anyone who chooses to do that. It's just my own risk aversion. 

I really appreciated the way you talked about how there's a way to make it work. We can figure it out. And that's really what drew me to the program. 

Marissa: And I think that's really fascinating because you are one who actually has your side hustle under the umbrella of your practice. And usually, we're trying to separate them out for that safety, but we've gone through the process and determined how this could work for you running it as really one business right now. 

Marie: Yeah, I actually started it even within the program as separate from my practice. And I still could do it that way if I wanted to have things shifted or changed. But as it's turned out and as we'll continue talking, it just makes more sense right now to be under my practice. 

And it's within the ethical guidelines and that sort of thing. Cause I'm not working with clients, I'm working with clinicians. So that makes a big difference. Had it been something working with clients, I think it would have had to be a different scenario. 

Marissa: Yeah. And before we even dive in, something I want to point out is you're also in a Ph.D. program right now. When do you finish? 

Marie: Uh, I don't know. I'm in year two of five, so I got a while. 

Marissa: But I have this conversation often with people. They're like, oh I was thinking about going back and getting another degree or I was going back and thinking about getting another certification and this, why should I do side hustle or can I do side hustle at the same time?

I think what is really cool about you is you're an example of that. And we can even talk like throughout the program, there were times where you had to step back and re-engage and that kind of stuff. And that's why side hustle is A) nine months long and B) gives you lifetime access because there's so much that can happen over those nine months, whether you're committed to another program or another personal growth business growth thing or not.

It's important for me that the program is not only accessible from a financial standpoint but accessible from a time and energy standpoint as well. 

Marie: Yeah. I definitely have some going back and listening to things to do and that sort of thing. And that was actually a growth point for me. I think just allowing myself to do that because I don't like to do that.

I like to be on with everything I'm doing all at one time. But I chose side hustle rather than another certification, not anything in particular, but I had just finished a certificate, a three-year certification, and I chose Side Hustle because I think that there aren't a lot of therapy-related certifications that I think really focus on the business aspect of things. And I really felt like I wanted to be fed up. 

Plus my doctorate program has an emphasis on... it's a doctorate in MFT, but the emphasis is on small business development and entrepreneurship. So I felt like it tied in really nicely and would be congruent with what I was learning in my program as well. And I actually really found that I was able to utilize some of the stuff I was building in Side Hustle and my assignments for certain classes and programs. 

Marissa: That's so cool. 

Marie: I'm all about some overlapping. And so that was totally cool with me. 

Marissa: Yeah. That's one of the biggest values that we talk about inside Side Hustle is repurposing. If you're going to through the time and effort to make this asset, how can we make this asset have legs? How can we make this asset work for you multiple times over in multiple different ways? 

So I think that's really neat that not only within the program, are you practicing that principle, but within cross programs, in your life in general. That's really neat. 

So let's dive in, what your original idea was because your original idea was actually to launch two programs while you had a Ph.D. going on and while you were doing these other things. So talk to me about those first few weeks of Side Hustle, you're, like, wide-eyed and you don't even know what you're getting into essentially. What was that? 

Marie: I'm sure it will come as no surprise to anybody who knows me that I was like, oh, I'm going to launch two programs. And so I did not do that by the way. I will say I fleshed out the idea for a second one, but I didn't end up actually launching it yet.

And my first idea was to do a membership program for therapists working specifically with sex love addiction arenas and trauma as it relates to. I have split certifications and both of those areas, various certifications in both those areas. And I think my experience as a clinician is that there wasn't a lot of consultation out there for specific nuances of that work.

Marissa: I remember when we talked about it and even in the beginning when we're talking about who's the ideal customer and the first foundational stuff. And I learned a lot from you on the difference between, like, process addiction and substance addiction, because a lot of the things that I was even bringing to the table. 

You were like, yes, but that's really more in the substance realm. Here's how it's different. And so I learned so much just by you helping me understand your ideal customer a little bit. 

Marie: Yeah. And so my initial thought was, okay, I'll create this curriculum, which is one of the things I really love doing and program development and allow it to be less than focused and a guide for participants as they go throughout and have some live consultation, but that not really be the focus of the program.

And I actually built some of that out, but because of the way that your program is designed is that we don't build all the content out until we realize if this is actually what our customer wants. I didn't waste all that time doing that, which I would have done if I had been doing this on my own.

And my idea pivoted and shifted. So I don't know if you want me to go into that yet. So I'll pause. 

Marissa: I like what you're saying here, at least first, because you were like, what is my different role, especially because this is under your practice. Now it ended up being under your practice. What you really have to be careful of then is that you're fulfilling a different role.

Like you do not act as a clinician. And that's one of the things that curriculums help us do because they standardize the delivery of our program and they help us define: This is what I do on week one. This is what I do on week two. And so if a board or an auditor or somebody ever wanted to see, how is this different than therapy?

We have the tangible evidence of this is what I teach week for week one or less than per lesson, but also here's how I behave. And here's how my actions are different as a therapist. And so that's one of the reasons we lean that way. But now keep going. Cause we ended up shifting away from that for you.

Marie: Yeah. And so I'm a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist Supervisor, and I was getting a lot of inquiries for supervision in a particular group, which is awesome. Cause I really love running groups. And it's a lot more financially feasible for clinicians too so it's a win-win there.

I was getting lots of requests for supervision and I was wanting, like thinking in my head, oh, this is really what my program is about. But really folks wanted to just show up and really process exactly what their needs were in that moment in real-time. And that was really easy for me.

Because all I had to do was just show up. And I didn't have to build a curriculum or that sort of thing. It also allowed me to jot down one of the themes that people continue to bring up just to help myself be a better teacher and educator. So I pivoted from this concept of a membership program that had a set curriculum to a mastermind program for clinicians doing this type of work. 

They don't have to be certified in a particular modality but do ask that they have some sort of familiarity with those issues. And currently everyone that's in my program is certified in one way, shape, or form, but they don't have to be.

And so we meet twice a month and so far, we haven't had any gaps in silence in our meetings. It's really a consultation kind of supervision. Some of them are getting meeting requirements for their certification. Some of them have finished their certification and are continuing ongoing consultation. And you know, a really big piece of this for me was I wanted to create a space where clinicians, we're getting ongoing consultation and supervision beyond their certification because it tends to stop there. 

And then many of us in solo practice are working in isolation, which is just really not good for this level of intensity and what we're holding as clinicians in the field of sex, addiction, love addiction, trauma, that sort of thing.

Marissa: Yeah. So let's break down this shift because you're like, I went from mat membership and then to mastermind, but there were some pieces in some elements here of why you did that. And let's look at it from a couple of different angles. 

Let's look at it from the business structure angle, because I think this business model makes more sense for you, but also from the time and effort and energy, especially investment piece, because what I really respected about you was sometimes I have students that are struggling and it could be struggling with time management.

It could be struggling with just coming up with their ideas or whatever. And when you hit a little snare, you reached out to me and you didn't just go months and months and say okay, well, I'm lost or whatever. You're like, hey, here's what's working for me in the program. Here's what's not working for me in the program. Can we sit and can we reevaluate? 

And I just respected the hell out of that because I thought it was really cool to like, bring to me some feedback of what was working for you and also bring to me, like, how do we move forward from here? And so what I picked up from that, and then you can fill in if I miss any gaps, but what I picked up for that was, I don't want to start a marketing plan, a marketing campaign. 

And while I have all these other things going on and basically build a business from scratch because I have this referral source, that's sending me a ton of traffic and a ton of people. How can I instead lean into what's already working? And utilize that in a better way, rather than, you know, building something else, building another channel. So that's what I got from the business side of things. But can you elaborate on that for us a little bit? 

Marie: Yeah. I think that's accurate and I think the business part also was about the energy part too because it was like, and it sounds a little woo, but I'm like, it's kinda like manifesting.

Like this was already coming to me, so maybe I need to pay attention to what's already coming to me and really lean into that rather than create something else. Even if that's what I had originally planned. And that could change over time too. But I felt like, with all that I had on my plate, I really needed to go with the flow of what was coming my way and work within those parameters.

I also didn't want to start a marketing kind of campaign so to speak and it fizzle out. I would rather, even if I have to condense or change or pivot, I'd rather be solid and go with that than say I'm going to promote this thing over here while I'm trying to do this thing over here. And while I'm trying to do this thing over here, and so I think some of it was evaluating my own capacity, my own energy level, along with what's best for my business. 

And what's really important to me as I'm sure it's true for many business owners is my credibility and reputation. So I really wanted what I provided to be quality and felt like going with really capitalizing on investing in the folks who were already right there seeking my support, save more sense than trying to find that elsewhere. 

Marissa: We talk about this a lot. We talk about going deep versus going wide, and it almost felt like at first trying to get this membership off the ground was going wide. And it doesn't mean that's where you're going eventually, or it doesn't mean that's not a future offer or a future shift, but right now we had this golden nugget in front of us and it was like, how can we go deeper here instead of trying to go wider? 

And so I think that's really cool. And I think that was the spark of the shift from this idea of membership site to mastermind.

Marie: Yeah, I think there was a moment for me where, in the program, and I don't know if I would even have been able to articulate it at the time, but I think there was a moment for me where I was like, Marie just do what you do. Just do what you're good at. Like wide, it is really not my forte. Deep is more of my forte.

And I hadn't conceptualized it like that before. It feels so much more natural to me. And I think I got excited about the possibility of wide. And so I jumped on that wagon and then needed to pull back and say, okay, but does this fit best for you? 

Marissa. Yes. And I think that's one of the conversations we have in something like week two of this idea of an Ascension model and an essential model looks like a ladder. So it is it's going up and down instead of horizontal, it's going vertical. And I have that conversation early in the program for a reason because there's a lot of people come with what about this idea? And what about this idea? What about this idea? And I'm like can they stack, can they combine? 

But I think it's almost worth it to revisit that conversation deeper into the program because I feel like that's when it resonated for you more because of course the big vision, the five-year plan, the ten-year plan.

That's what we're all really attracted to. That's why I talk about the margaritas in Mexico, right? That's the five-year vision. That's the 10-year vision. What's the this is what I'm working on in nine months vision. 

Marie: And that was a constant thing for me to have to keep re-evaluating. And I knew that would be a challenge for me. That's just part of who I am and how I work. I remember when I first went over like here's the model I'm thinking of and you were like that's a corporate model. And that was like, oh, I don't want to build a corporation.

Marissa: It's the umbrella brand model, and do those run? Yes, but they have a director of operations. They have a director of marketing and a CEO of this or a COO of that. And I'm like, those businesses exist, but it's a very, probably different structure than what you're aiming for. At least in this model.

Marie: Yeah. So I think that was helpful to me because I was like, oh, that's not, no, I might want that type of program, but that's not how I want to operate a business. So I have to find the middle ground. 

Marissa: A hundred percent okay. So let's break it down just a little bit. You're already this certified supervisor. So that's already an investment that you had made in your skills, an investment that you had made on the clinical side. And is this the certification that you have already, did you graduate from the same program that now the graduates are coming to you?

So again, I'm going to talk and then you correct me or fill in the gaps. So you went through the certification and then you became qualified to be a supervisor for that certification. And so you had, I'm assuming, network connections and things like that. And so that's why the certification just continues to send you its graduates.

Marie: Sort of yeah. Essentially, yes. So I have two certifications that are within the same organization. The organization is the international super trauma and addiction professionals. And underneath that, I have a C-SAT, which is a certified sex addiction therapist, and a CPTT, which is a certified partner trauma therapist.

I have both of those certifications and I'm a supervisor for both of those. And anyone who goes through those programs has to get a certain number of hours for supervision. And the organization themselves puts the onus on the participant to find a supervisor, but they do have an ongoing list of supervisors.

They have a forum where you can post if you're available for supervision or you're looking for supervision. So it's not as if they're like, we're funneling all these to Marie, but they're funneling them to supervisors in general. So that's key and the supervisors are responsible for keeping a certain level of continuing ed that's based in supervision as well. So that's how it works. 

Marissa: And so you were already providing that service and there were, I assume like with other certifications, there's a set number of supervision hours that they need. And then when they turn that documentation in, they have the cert. 

And so what is the difference, business, structurally, energy-wise between what you were doing as the supervisor, and now what this mastermind looks like, what it means and how it functions differently.

Marie: That's still in progress. But I think... so right now in my program, I've got probably half the folks are seeking certification still, and half have already finished but asked could we continue? This has been really helpful. This is something I can plan for each, you know, and ask specific questions and get case consults.

And so of course I'm like, yes, you can continue. So my role is twofold right now when I'm working with the folks who are still in supervision, depending on where they are in their career. I'm sometimes being more of that direct supervisor. But also I would say that it's a lot more content-focused.

So where you might be talking about more personal issues and supervision and individual supervision. In the mastermind, we're talking about these larger concepts that relate to the field. We're talking about real nuance aspects of doing this work and creative interventions. How to weave in the skills you already have as a therapist.

I'm not trained in EMDR, but maybe someone in my group is, and okay, how can they use that along with this new skillset? So it's a bit more than your basic supervision. 

Marissa: Yeah. And what is cool here too, is you already had people who were asking to continue with you. And so it was like, sure, but it was maybe not a defined container in terms of price point and length of time and those kinds of things.

And so that's really one of the pieces of that is you created this container that's structured and defined that people could continue with. And so I remember we were talking about, okay, how are we going to move people over from what they thought of as supervision. 

Some of the people were asking, and I don't know the exact percentages, perhaps you can fill us in, but some of the people were asking for something new, but then you also had to go in and convert people from one program to the other program. Or one way of working with you to a program, I guess is a better way of saying that. 

And so we're still talking sales, we're still talking marketing. We're still talking. What is the benefit of this new container, how does it serve them differently? Why should they want it? So all the principles of Side Hustle still came over, but it was working with an existing structure that you already kind of had, turning it into something that served you better. 

And now we'll get to this later, but now it is also something that is scalable too. And you can grow this, which is one of the pieces that was a little bit more. 

Marie: Yeah. And I'm starting to get some folks asking for an even more deeper dive like you and I have talked about that like hot seat, kinda several hours, you know rotating out. So I imagine that will be the next phase. 

I didn't really think it would happen this quickly, but I am getting some requests for that and it makes sense. Again, as to where people are in their development as clinicians or in their learning process. So I didn't want people to be sitting in and paying for something that wasn't really benefiting them just for the sake of doing it and getting the hours. 

So if I have to split things up or change up the way I do things so that they can be beneficial, that's important to me. 

Marissa: Yeah. So perhaps, or are you saying perhaps supervision stays in like... if we're thinking of essential model supervision is your bottom rung and then mastermind is above that instead of them all being in the same space?

Marie: Yeah. That's what I'm thinking about.

Marissa: Because right now they're all in the same space, correct? 

Marie: Yeah. And part of that was numbers because I wanted a real group feel. And if you only have two or three people, that doesn't really make sense. But part of it was where I gauged folks' development, but that's going to shift and change over time.

So it's nice to have other areas that they can plug into because fortunately, and I feel I'm really grateful for this, people are asking like, hey, this doesn't work. This part isn't working for me, but this is really helpful. How can I get more of that? 

Marissa: A hundred percent. 

Marie: And my group of folks that I have are really my inspiration for doing all this because they were the ones that said, this is really what we need, Marie. And we talk about that in the beginning of the program about what's your ideal customer and what are their needs and pain points. But nothing beats hearing it straight from them in the moment in real-time. 

Marissa: And that's what I say is once you've done your validation interviews, and once you have a pool of people, who you can speak to real, like in real-time or speak straight to the person.

It's a lot different because what you and I come up with it, it could be golden, but it's still always going to be hypothetical until you hear from that person themselves, what they want and what they need. That's what changes. 

Marie: Yeah. And I also work with people individually for their supervision, because they're only allowed to do a certain number of group hours. And I've had the opportunity in those sessions to get some feedback for what's working for you, what's still missing, what do you need? And I can incorporate that into the group model as well.  

Marissa: So let's... do you mind talking numbers in terms of like enrollments, price points, that kind of stuff? 

Marie: Sure. Yeah. I launched with nine people in my program. We meet twice a month, and it is 150 a month per person. I had a couple of different options for them to jump in. You could pay monthly. I did ask for three months commitment because I wanted to keep it a more cohesive feel.

But also, I'm a clinician too, so I didn't want to feel people to feel like, oh, I gotta pay for this yearly membership thing that I don't really want anymore. So I wanted to give options while also trying to keep a bit of a community feel. So they can opt-in for a monthly membership with a minimum of three months or they can pay annually.

And they get a little bit of a discount for doing that. And a lot of the folks who need to get all of their hours, just go ahead and pay annually because it breaks down to what their needs are anyways. Yeah. I've got nine in the group and then I also provide individual or dyad supervision to probably half of those folks.

And sometimes people are moving from individual into group with me, and sometimes they're moving from group into individual with me, and sometimes they're doing both. The main factor contributing to that is just cost. And again, I'm a therapist too, so I try to be sensitive to those issues as well.

Marissa: Yeah. So it's a little bit shy of 1500 a month. 

Marie: Yes, total. 

Marissa: Yeah. Cause it's nine people. And so for the year, you're like 10K year. Which is not shabby for your first program. It's something that you kind of like... I wouldn't say made up on the fly because there's a lot of thought and intention here, but something that you came up with as a direct response to what you were already doing, I guess is what I mean by that. 

So those nine people, were those all people who had previously worked with you, or were they all currently working with you in one capacity and then you had to scoot them over to something different or? 

Marie: I think it's probably about half and half. It may be like, I think maybe three or four of them were finished with certification and moved over to continuing ongoing consultation. I think about three or four were brand new and so they emailed me, I'm interested, I said, here's my program. Here's the options. And then the remaining few transitioned over. And so I think I have a pretty good mix. 

Marissa: Yeah. So what's really neat is this is something that you were traditionally doing either one-to-one or one to small group, and you've now moved it to one to many in a bigger group situation.

So are you still trading time for money? Yes, technically, but it's a lot less time. And you now have created recurring revenue for yourself because once they finish their hours, what we can continue to work on you and I is how do we then quote-unquote, upsell them into the mastery side of this because that's what a mastermind provides is mastery.

And so yes, in a certification - and I think all of us listening, whether we have this certification or other certifications are or not, but the learning side and the practical application side and the embodiment side, they're all different things, right? So they might be learning how to do this and the certification and they might be running roleplays or practices with you or in other situations in the certification.

But until they're out there working with these clients five months down the road, 10 months down the road, and this is the work they do. They're not going to realize some of these things are coming up again. 

Marie: Exactly. And that's the beauty of the group is that, and why I do like having folks that are at very different points in their process, is because sometimes people don't even have a client that has a sex addiction, yet that they wanted the certification. And so they benefit from listening to what the other group members are bringing up and they're like, oh, okay. 

When I get to that point one day, or when I have a case like that, now I know what to do. As far as the revenue piece goes, it was really important for me to be super transparent with my members and just saying yes, this is a source of revenue and I want it to also bring value.

And so I felt like I really have gotten to do that. Even when I'm trying to scale them up to something more, you know, it's not this really salesy technique. It is sales, but it's not. I'm just like, hey, here are some other options. Here's what I think could be helpful to you.

I really believe in it. I believe in its value and if it's not the right time and the right fit for you. That's okay. And that was something that I had learned before the program, but it also solidified for me is okay, then this is just not for you. That's okay. I'm like, it may not be the time, the place you may not be the ideal customer for right now. And getting okay with that. 

Marissa: Yeah. There's a couple of things that I want to follow up on. So the first is you said it's, it can be really great for newbies to hear the advanced bring things up. But I think it also goes the other way. Cause sometimes newbies just ask a question in a way, and the advanced person either just forgot about it because they're further down the road or had just never thought of it that way.

So both instances can really benefit each other. And then what you're talking about just now of the sales being done with integrity. We use a used car salesman example earlier, early in the program when we're starting to talk about marketing and benefits of offers and things like that and like used car salesman out there that are slimy and they just want to get the car sold off the lot. Absolutely. 

But is there the salesman out there who reads the family coming in with a newborn or whatever in the car seat and gets them with the car that's actually the right fit for them. Like reliability-wise, gas mileage-wise, all of those things. There totally can be sales can be done with integrity, right? 

Marie: And that was really important to me. And I feel like something that I have been able to execute. 

Marissa: Yeah. So out of the nine who joined, were there people who said no? 

Marie: There were a few that said I'd like to do my individual first and then I'll jump in the group because doing both at the same time is a bit too much financially for me. And so that was cool with me. I only do a very few individual or dyad slots anyways. So I don't think there was anyone that said no directly. 

Now, there were people that I sent out my email list to who didn't respond. So I guess those are considered nos, but no one that I directly pitched to that said no. So that was kinda cool. 

Marissa: I think that's really cool too because it shows the need for the program. A not right now is not a no in my book. It might be like a no of dang, the revenue's not hitting my bank account right now, but it's not a no, your program is stupid. No, your program isn't going to isn't good for me, or no, I don't want to work with you. Those are different things in my book, right? 

Marie: I'm thinking back as we're talking, like, there were people finishing up some of their supervision with me. I guess a few of those did say not right now but were like, hey, I've really benefited from this. And I please keep me in the loop as your program develops.

And sometimes people just need a break from... they've just completed this all these hours. And it's I just need a breather before I jump into something else. And having had these certifications and been through these, it's intense. 

And so I understand that and I try to convey that hey, that's cool. I'm here for support. I want you to know what's available to you so that if you do get stuck, you do get in a place where you want more support, it's out there. Because when I started in solo practice, there's really not, unless you work in a group practice or in a team format, there's really not a lot of opportunity for that out there. And so that was my goal to create the place for it. 

Marissa: So let's talk about email lists cause you brought it up. You didn't necessarily want to do a lot of marketing beyond these certifications right now. You had success with a little bit of marketing that you did and you did it in a non-traditional online way, like online income way.

So I'd love to just have can you tell us how you started promoting and the results of promotion and those types of. 

Marie: Yeah. I am a little bit of a Facebook junkie. So I used that platform quite a bit because I'm in a lot of therapists groups other hobby interest groups, and things like that. So I use that primarily and posted in those very specific groups about what I was offering. 

Of course, I had an opt-in, so people could get a feel for who I am and what I do and a resource that can help them in their practice. I think two of the other areas that were maybe a little less traditional than the typical email lists as one, that these particular certifications have their own forums. And so you're really targeting the folks who actually do this work or would like to do this work. I didn't want to overkill it. 

I posted in there a couple of times and kept my name on the open supervision list as someone who's accepting supervisees. And then there's also a statewide network that I posted on which, you know, I could have posted on other states as well, because it's not required that the person be in my state, but I just, it was a little more targeted. And I think it allowed me to get to my message, to get to people who were actually potentially interested in what I was offering. 

Marissa: Cause did you get like 250 subscribers from one post or something like that. 

Marie: Yeah, exactly. 

Marissa: So you said a little more targeted, but I say a lot more targeted, and the quote-unquote non-traditional route is... so many people on Facebook expect offers to be put in front of their face because there's a lot of lousy marketing, lousy sales that happens on social media and in these traditional online income marketing places.

And so what I love about this is it combines two of the things you just said: Marketing within integrity, saying that you have something that really actually serve them and really actually benefiting them, and then taking a nontraditional route where people aren't used to seeing marketing messages all of the time. 

And boom, 250 subscribers from a single post because it was a valuable sharing, not a pitching, but a sharing and inviting. A hey, I have this for you. And it was really helpful for me. And I think it's going to be really helpful for you. And it was done in the right place. We talk about this, like, alternative places to market. 

It's why I blog for the American counseling association. Do I have a podcast? Yes. Do I have a Facebook group? Yes. Are those more traditional? Yes. Do I also do some things that are not the traditional way? Yes. 

And so alumni associations, like different ways to get in front of the perfect person that are not typical marketing channels is a really cool alternative. And it's something that seemed to work really well for you as well. 

Marie: Yeah. And to be honest, I didn't have a ton of time and energy to devote to like a blog or a podcast, as much as I absolutely would love to have both of those things. I do have a blog, but those take a lot more time.

And one of the things we talked about in the program is so what are your things that are going to take more time organically? And what are the things that are likely to get you up and running a little faster? And I just, I have a full practice. I am working on a doctorate, I didn't have time to do those particular things at this juncture.

I tried to capitalize on what I thought. Okay. What do you have the time for to execute well, and let's see where that goes first. If that doesn't work, we can always reevaluate. 

Marissa: It's the perfect example of what we call an MVP. Most viral product. This was the most viable thing. You already had traffic sources for it. And it was the most viable thing for you to get up and running now. And it's going to make you 10K this year. There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. 

This could be an extra $10,000 of revenue for you, or we can talk about growth potential because you said it's not limited to the people that have these certificates and you could absolutely go to the place where these really targeted specific people hang out and invite them into a mastery because in those forums there's people who are interested in that work, but there's also the people who are doing the work. 

So it's okay, have you been C-SAT certified for five years, but still find the work unfulfilling? That's great. And we could get in front of them in the same forum and then invite them to come into that mastery side of things. So there's a ton of growth potential. 

Marie: Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things I'm just been tossing around in my head as of late is, like where do I want to cap the group? So that it still has this community feel and also is scalable and beneficial to me financially. So I haven't had to make a decision about that just yet. But I think that is something that I'll be trying to figure out. 

Marissa: Yeah so here's how I've done that just to share is that's why Wednesday office hours are a big group and you guys can co-mingle and mix there. But Friday I have two separate calls and I keep those small and there is one round of side hustle where I had three Fridays. Because it's only students that I split it. 

What I did is I committed another hour and a half of my time, but that hour and a half of my time was well worth it because there were so many people that needed to fill that call slot. And then still Wednesdays was a big group and everybody was able to mix and mingle in the big group. But then the small groups where that intimate, personal attention is important, I just added a third one. 

So that could be something that you maybe do down the road. You have your nine now and then maybe you'll run the numbers. Like when is it beneficial for me at what number to add a second time and commit another two hours a month or whatever it is. And then you could have a mixer where they all get to co-mingle. But you can still have another spot where it keeps that intimate feel. 

Marie: Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking is... so right now my group meets on Fridays every other Friday, so I could easily plug another group into those off Fridays. Because it's really important to me that folks have an opportunity to speak up and ask questions. And I think the bigger the group gets the harder that is, especially for folks who are a little more introverted. 

And again, then it gives me space to say we haven't heard from you. Is there anything you wanted to share? To give them the invitation, cause I can easily fill up the hour answering one or two people's questions. I don't want to do it that way. 

Marissa: Yeah. Yeah. In your research, did you find anything that was like ethical concern or any ethical regulations about adding on to a supervision program or anything like that?

Marie: I actually did consult with one of my professors as I was going through it. I think that if I were providing... and I will probably run into this. If I were providing actual clinical supervision, I think that would be different. I think there are some different requirements for that in terms of one I know for AMFT is you can only have a certain number of members in the group for it to count.

So some elements like that, I think you have to figure out how to adhere to. But as far as this is not your typical supervision consultation, so no one's operating under my license or anything like that. If they were, that would be a really different scenario. So I don't really plan to go that route because I just don't want to make it complicated. 

Marissa: So that's, in your opinion - granted, neither of us are lawyers so consult with your people, there's my disclaimer. But in your opinion, that's the difference if they're under your license or when you're providing supervision for a certification or like kind of an external thing that doesn't fall under your license. It's different. 

Marie: And I did review what the supervision requirements were for the organization that I am working on, or just to make sure that I wasn't violating anything that, and that I was following the protocol. It's not super strict. And I looked at the forums and things that I would have to fill out to make sure that I could speak to each of those points.

Cause I will sometimes have to fill out evaluations or recommendations for those who are seeking supervision. And I had already been doing all of that. So that was really fresh in my mind, which was nice. I didn't have to do a ton of additional research. 

Marissa: Yeah. And something that you already mentioned if there ever was a snag, what you could do is keep the supervisees in this blank, like, this three-month container or whatever it was. And then when they're done with that, bring them up to the mastermind or encourage them to come up to the mastermind. And then that is your program alone. 

And it's not regulated because they fulfilled the requirements for the cert. And this is just, hey, want the practical application? Want to talk about what this looks like in the real world. Want to continue to have dynamic conversations with professionals in the field? I have a container for that, and that has nothing to do with the certification. 

Marie: Correct. Yeah. And that's how I am and how I envisioned it looking.

Marissa: For anybody who's listening and thinking, oh my gosh, I can keep this under my license or this is an interesting different approach. Do you have any advice for people who are thinking about joining side hustle this year, things they should consider, takeaways from the program? 

Marie: Yeah, hopefully, I've shared a few of those as we've gone throughout. And I think that I would say just to be willing and open to jump in, I came in with a hundred ideas and had really no idea what the end goal was going to be exactly. And I think my willingness to listen to what was being shared and taught and apply and adjust and adapt was really important. 

Also, it's a significant investment, but I would say it's well worth every dollar and I felt very supported. I felt like I got a lot. Even though it wasn't one-on-one I felt like I got a lot of personal attention. And I shared in our graduation that I feel like I've learned more in my side hustle about business and how it relates to therapy and how I can combine the two than in some of the courses that I've taken academic-wise. 

I realize that's not an academic-focused area. But I think it's something that I really needed. I'm actually really excited about it. I've got some stuff to go back to listen to in the course, and I still have access which is just great. So I'm excited to go back and really dive into that. 

Now that my program is up and running, I think it will be even more applicable because it's oh, okay, this I can plugin and do. So now I'm really using that to fine-tune things, which I think is super cool. 

Marissa: Awesome. Where should people go to check out this program? If they're listening, if they have these certifications or even if they're just interested in doing this type of work, the partner trauma, the sex addiction work, they don't have to be certified to join your mastermind.

Marie: Correct. They can check out my website, it's www.mariewoodsconsulting.com and under the professional mastermind tab. You can click there, apply for the program. It'll also describe the program for you. And you can also reach out to me via email. I'm happy to have a one-on-one conversation. My email marie@mariewoodsconsulting.com.

Marissa: Awesome. Great. I think that this is the coolest thing to be able to repurpose what's working for you to go deep rather than wide and to get out there and get something to market that for you is going to be quite lucrative. And know that changes, pivots, shifts, adaptations will come in the future. 

So thanks for sharing all of this with us. I think it's a story that everybody needs to hear. 

Marie: Awesome. Thanks, Marissa. I appreciate it. 

Marissa: All right, I'll talk with you soon. 

Marie: Okay. Bye.

Marissa: Alright, so here's what I think is the biggest takeaway from Marie's story is this idea of an MVP. And it's not most valuable player in this sense. MVP is a business term that means most viable product. A lot of us have this goal coming into Side Hustle of changing things, completely in making a big dream happen or making a huge shift.

And are those huge shifts possible? Absolutely. Are there some students who do something completely different than what they do in session in their side hustle? Yes, that happens. However, sometimes you can add and in Marie's case $10,000 a year to your bottom line with something that's already working for you.

You just need to tweak it a little bit. You just need to give it different parameters or make it a little bit of a different container and boom, you've got your side hustle. 

So sometimes it's not about reinventing the wheel and sometimes it's not about making huge changes. It's about channeling things that are already effective for you into a new way of working, literally repurposing and repackaging what you're doing clinically into a different container. And you've got a whole new income stream. 

So I think that was super duper cool. If you've got a story similar to Marie, where there's something that's already working for you inside your practice, and you want to explore what it would look like to evolve, what it would look like to expand that business-wise, revenue-wise, apply for Side Hustle.

It's not only about doing something new, big, and different. It's about streamlining and making things more effective and more lucrative for you. So head on over to www.marissalawton.com/side-hustle and apply. Applications are closing soon, and our program kicks off in just a couple of weeks. So if you are thinking about it, do it. You won't regret it.

It's an awesome investment in both you and your business. You have personal growth and business growth. It's all covered. So I would love to have you join us for the 2022 cohort. Again, marissaLawton.com/side-hustle.

I will be back with you guys next week, and until then keep on rising.

And check out these related posts!