Biz Chat with Dr. Amber Lyda
Did 2020 affect your business?
There are probably a lot of hell yesses!
In the latest episode of Empathy Rising, I sat down with the lovely and whip smart Dr. Amber Lyda to chat about all things online business. ☕️ Just two good friends, sitting down for a coffee and recapping everything that happened last year and how we’re shifting things in 2021.
It can feel so great to hear that others may be having the same struggles in business and to learn what they’re doing to overcome them, and that’s what this chit-chat episode is all about.
This episode left me feeling so inspired for the new business year, and I know you’ll feel it too. So curl up with a cozy drink and join us for some business insights and of course, some laughs!
CLICK BELOW TO LISTEN!
Full Show Notes (Transcript)…
Hey, risers. Welcome to episode 91 of Empathy Rising. I'm really excited today because I am chatting with pretty much my biz bestie, Dr. Amber Leida, which we know needs no introduction, but I'm going to later on in the show, have her introduce herself anyway.
But what was really, really cool about this episode, not only are we gonna just, I’m to one of my best friends, but I had a last-minute cancellation for somebody who was supposed to record with me this week. They just had some life stuff come up and couldn’t be on the show, and so I had a spot to fill last minute. And I was thinking who do I know who could just hop on with me? What was really cool was like, I immediately thought of Amber who has freedom in their schedule, flexibility in their days, and can just flow with me up on here.
I was like, I reached out to Amber immediately. We use an app called Voxer. We talk on it quite often which is just like a walkie-talkie chit chat app. And I said, what if my audience could hear our walkie-talkie chit-chats? So I said, Hey girl, do you have any time this week that you could hop on with me, I had a last-minute cancellation. She's like, absolutely. Let me just check my schedule.
And so it was really cool to be able to just make this happen last minute. And I think that's just a testament to not only building an online therapy business but then what you can do when you move even beyond online therapy into an online business. So it's really cool that we get to model this for you guys in real life.
So without further ado, let's get into our chat with Amber.
ML: Hey, Amber, welcome to the show. All of my listeners, I'm sure no doubt know exactly who you are, but let's start with just a little introduction anyway. Tell us a little bit about OTG and what you do, but also I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit.
Could you share with us a secret or a fun fact that people might not know about you, which is kind of hard, ’cause you're pretty transparent anyway, but just anything that might be fun to share?
AL: I can always come up with something. I'm Amber Lyda and I started an online therapy practice a few years back when I was looking to get out of the hustle of commuting two hours a day and working 50 hours a week and spending a lot of time in Excel spreadsheets that didn't matter to anybody. And as I built that practice, it turned out that other people wanted to do the same. And so I had the privilege of starting to coach people and building their online practice and then building an online course to help people build their practices and things have just been growing in terms of Side Hustle from there.
ML: Yeah. Yeah. And what's what I love is when I talk about you, I call you the OG of the OTG because you've been doing online therapy way before it was cool. And you've been teaching online therapy way before it was cool. And sometimes, in the beginning, that was even a barrier of having to convince people why they needed to have an online component to their practice.
And it might not have even been a need back then, which now we can argue, I think we need to be able to pivot online, even if it's not our primary delivery method. But it was more like, here's why you would want this. And now it needs no convincing and it needs no, no explanation.
AL: Absolutely. Talk about needing to change your sales page. In the beginning, it was very much about the pain points, being convincing people this is a legitimate thing that people can do. It's legal, it's ethical, you can find clients and now everybody knows all of that. They're just looking to see how can I up my game? How can I make sure it's secure? How can I make sure that it's legal and how do I do a really good job and get clients?
ML: Yeah, I definitely want to dive into that pivot and just dissect 2020 a little bit and talk about how it changed our business and how, what we're, what both of us are planning differently for 2021, but I'm not going to let you off the hook. Can you share that fun fact?
AL: So a fun fact about me is that I used to do trapeze. Yeah. I was in ballet and dance and gymnastics since I was about three and in my little hometown for some reason, our instructor also was super into trapeze and web and all sorts of out there kind of circus stuff.
And so I got to do that! And in one case, we had two shows every year that we did publicly, which was a hot mess. But in one of them, I got to be on the trapeze and it's very tall. And I forgot to tell the guy who stood below us, who was there to catch us if we fell. I forgot to tell him that I was going to drop my hands at one point and just hang from my ankles.
And so I'm like doing this funky little contortion on the trapeze and I'm swinging back and forth. And then I dropped my hand and sent him into a panic. It was really fun for me!
ML: That is so cool. That is fascinating because. I always used to want to do that. That was like a secret wish of mine.
And then I would watch these shows you know, like Real Housewives of something or other, and they'd be like doing that and I'd be like, Oh, so you can do it as an adult. I might just find a place that lets you do it. Cause I really want to try it.
AL: Oh and if that place also let you have a skate rink for adults, I'd be all about it. Can we please roller skate and play on a trapeze?
ML: Oh, that is so cool. I love it. As I said, I just want to chit chat and I think one of the biggest things to talk about is how I had a little bit of a pivot in 2020. I had to pivot my messaging just a bit, but I think you had to have a major pivot like you were alluding to it used to be, this is legit too, okay, ow how do we, like, how do we take this to the next level and how do we do it quickly and things like that.
So can you talk a little bit about maybe just walk us through almost like BC and AD like before the pandemic and after pandemic can you talk to us a little bit about what your business looked like? What the pivot was like, and now post, post-pandemic, post pivot, what changes you're keeping what you're going back to. That's a lot of questions.
AL: But yeah it was a really interesting year for business and it feels like this was the year. I really embraced being an entrepreneur where I felt like, you know what, whatever happens, then my job is to pivot or come up with a response to that rather than Oh if we don't get enough sales, I guess that failed.
There's going to be a time as an entrepreneur where you're not going to get the sales that you expect. And so I felt much calmer than I expected to feel this year. There's so much out of our control that we're just going to have to roll with it.
When the pandemic first hit, I was holding two businesses at once. I was holding the online therapy practice, a clinical side of my business, and then, of course, teaching people to do online therapy. And the clinical side of my practice, I had a brief meltdown of nobody's going to be able to afford therapy. And I was like signing all the paperwork to hook up with EAPs. And I was like, okay, I'm going to give this a month. And if I need to sign up with insurance panels and diversify, that's the next step that I'm going to do. I talked to all my students about like, all right, let's hunker down here. This could be an apocalypse. Let's make sure that we are diversified and we're going to be okay.
That turned out to be totally fine. And the business, the practice continued as it was, but I was prepared.
On the other side again, I felt like, gosh, nobody's going to spend money on a course, an expensive course when they don't know what's going to happen financially, I was wrong, wrong, wrong. It was the biggest sales season that we've ever had.
ML: Your spring was? Yeah, same with me. That's interesting. Okay. Go ahead.
AL: And I'm hearing that from other online business owners too. So we went into strong service mode. I started becoming worried that they were going to be people doing online therapy without any sort of training at all. So yeah. I did a lot of service-oriented, like free workshops, 50 page manual about how to do it. And that increased our email list by 4,000 people in a very short period of time.
ML: So you were like, what I love about this is you responded to the market. But you were already prepared to respond. You knew what to teach. You were able to evaluate, okay, they're going to need X, Y, and Z, I can make that really quickly.
I bet there was a sense of imperfect action. Like with that 50-page book, I bet there's a typo in it. Like I bet there's, whatever, but you made it and you got it out there.
AL: Absolutely. There was definitely a piece of “respond quickly.” There's an urgent need to respond quickly and it earns a lot of Goodwill. When you go into service mode in the middle of a crisis and people really need support. Maybe they bought a course, maybe they didn't, but now they're in my ecosystem forever. And they're remembering that.
ML: Could you speak a little bit on that imperfect action piece? Because that is so big to my listeners. I'm always encouraging them. Even if it's a baby step, take a step.
AL: Yeah. If you're in the art of service and not in ego, it becomes a lot easier to take action. It absolutely, it wasn’t imperfect, but I wasn't going for a particular product.
So I was going for these people need help, like right now, what can I give them right now? That would be helpful. And the videos that I made, one of them I'm in yoga clothes. This was not worded. And it's been seen by thousands and thousands of people. I just got the feeling of I've got to do something.
So when you're in that place of service, people don't care about it looking glossy. They just want some help. If I had gotten into a place of Oh gosh, thousands of people might see this, the whole delivery would have been different. And then it would have been an ego and worried about how I'm coming across rather than worrying about helping.
ML: Can you think back to three years ago though, and would you have still had that same response, or is that learned and practiced over time?
AL: Unfortunately, that's just part of my personality, I can be impulsive. And so if I feel like I have something to say, and if you need to say the thing, afterward, I will look at it and beat myself up and worry about it.
But at least I get it out there and then torture myself after the fact.
ML: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I, what I have found, and I've been sharing this with my students and I've shared this on the podcast a little bit, is that I found that people fall into two camps and there's a few, like I consider myself in the middle, actually.
I think there are a few people there, but predominantly people fall into two camps. The people that need to research, research, research, research, gather all the knowledge, gather all the data before they feel quote-unquote, ready to take action. And then there are the people who are like I'm just going to try it. I'm going to jump in with both feet. And then, there are pros and cons to both, right?
This person is prepared. The con is, they rarely actually take the action. The pro of this person is they're doing something, but the con is a lot of times I call it like when you're, when you have really gross food on your plate and you want to look like you're eating it, but you're not. So you're like pushing it around the plate, makes your mom, or whoever made the meal, think that you're eating, but you're not. That's what this person does. They get in. And they push a lot of stuff around, but it's not actually maybe moving them forward.
And I think that, if I could be so kind to say, I think that you're in this latter camp of jumping in with both feet and that's something I think, in working with you for a long time and for knowing, from knowing you for a long time, I think you've gotten better at that. I think you still take quick action, but I think you're better at seeing what does this action does and what is the purpose of this action?
AL: Absolutely. And it takes, I tend to make a mess and then clean it up and organize it after the fact and pull the parts that worked and keep doing those and then let go of the other parts.
So what that means for me is I might get a business up and going quickly, but it's also going to take a longer time for it to scale for me because I'm coming to clean things up and I'm having to assist, clean up the systems and I'm having to fix the things that I did really messily and I'm having to redo them. So I agree. There are totally pros and cons to both.
ML: Has that cleaning up the mess part become easier or faster, or more intuitive now that you've been doing it longer?
AL: It's more intuitive. And now I know what to look for. So hiring a VA, who's now basically an OBM, and having people work with me has made it so much easier because my mind can think, I'm a good teacher. So when I'm thinking, like I need to hand these tasks off to my people, I can think about it from the top-down and organize it all and be like, okay, here you go. When I'm just doing it myself, I'm in the creation mode. I'm not in the part of my brain that does the organizing.
ML: Yeah, that's fascinating for the listeners who don't know a VA is like a virtual assistant who usually you hand tasks off to, and they might be in charge of one or two things in your business where an OBM is more of an online business manager who helps make sure the whole business is running.
And for you, that is Kim. Correct?
AL: Kim and Chantel, they really split it. One's more on like the creative-strategy side. One's more on the organization, customer service side.
ML: And that's really cool too is like over time as you've become more profitable and as you've had more cash coming in, you've recognized I need some help.
AL: Yeah. I need a lot of help.
ML: So the pandemic hits and you have this immediate response, this immediate, there is a problem here. I feel called, I feel called to help. I know I can help in my own way. And so you create these new assets, you grow your email list, you have a banner spring.
What did you feel that you needed to change about? Did you need to change the course at all? Or did you just needed to change the way you talked about the course?
AL: So in the sprinting, I didn't need to change anything at all. People were desperate. What I learned in the second part of the year was I should have changed the messaging. And so two things didn't go well.
And that, that launch didn't go well. In retrospect, there were two issues that we should have done differently. One was our messaging, things had totally changed. These people had already been practicing online therapy. So what they needed was to know where to level up. That agitation should have been happening around, I know you put this together fast, but there are some things that aren't right in your business, and are you going to fix that?
Even now the messaging will be different in the next launch. The next launch is going to be about like, I know you love working in your pajama pants friend, and you want to continue doing that. Here's how I'm going to help you continue to do that. So the messaging needed to be really different. And I didn’t pivot, I didn't think about that.
And then that second piece was typically a month before a launch cycle for me, I get much more visible in my Facebook group and I hadn't. It was a pandemic, there was a lot going on. I was not very visible. And plus I felt like, man, I was visible a lot before, like I'm ready to coast. Because of that and the Facebook algorithm change and the election season going on, I was putting out all of my normal launch stuff into the group and no one was eating it. It was getting no reach at all.
So it didn't matter how great I might be selling. Nobody was seeing my messaging. And so it wasn't until very, very late in the launch that anybody was seeing my messaging. So we had far fewer sales than normal.
ML: Did you think about extending the dates of your launch and it like, because if you saw that people were seeing the message late, did you keep the cart open longer, or did you just say let's call it what it is and then make a plan from there? How did you strategically deal with a, I don't want to call it a flop because you did make sales, but it wasn't what you projected. So like a lesser launch.
How did you strategically deal with that? And then how did you emotionally deal with that?
AL: Emotionally. I really, in my mind, I was like, you know what? We sold 187 in the spring. We sold 50 in the fall. I expected to sell about a hundred in each, so it balanced out. And so financially I knew we were okay. Cause that was what I had planned for.
The team was exhausted. I was tired, they were tired and it really felt to me like, I was hearing from a lot of entrepreneurs that sales were really low that part of the year. And it felt like if I was going to continue pushing it, like keeping the cart open and continuing to do sales stuff, that it was going to start to feel like it was coming from a place of desperation and force for me.
And I don't do a good job, but when I'm in that place, so we just called it. I was like, there's other stuff we're doing in the new year. I was already coming up with other ideas to generate income in the new year. And so we just called it and thought we'll do something different next time.
ML: Yeah. My experience of 2020 was very similar. I did an actual launch for Side Hustle in round one, which was December of 2018 to start January 2019. And that's the round that you went through. And I did like a webinar and I did all the, like I did the pre-launch, ramp up and all the stuff that you're supposed to do when you launch.
And then we had nine people join that round. Round two, I didn't launch it. I just said applications are open. And I just kept talking about the applications. And so this was June of 2019. We had 13. Come the fall, come to December of 2019 going into January of 2020, didn't launch it again, like just applications are open and we had 22 people joined from that round.
In the spring, I'm sitting here thinking there's no way this can keep going. Something's going to give here, eventually. My spring was so fast and so big. We had 28 people join and I had to close applications a month early because if, yeah, if I had kept applications open, we probably would have had 35 people in there.
And I was personally freaking out because I didn't know how to support that many people. Yeah. I didn't have the systems in place. I was doing everything myself. So when people were submitting their sales pages for review, I was reading everybody's sales page. When people were submitting their designs for review, I was reviewing all of their designs.
And with 22 people, it was hard, with 28 people I knew it was impossible. So I like quickly through a little team together. I asked my coach and some other people in the industry, Hey, who do you know? Who's a copywriter who do you know, who's a designer?
I got really lucky with my designer. She's great. And she's like the in-house designer for Side Hustle. So for the last round, the one that was June to December, they just finished, she was doing all of their reviews. I hired her for this coming year. She designed seven different brand kits. She designed an entire website, all that are included in the program now, because I was like, yeah, I was like, I need you. If we're going to continue to do numbers like this, I need you.
So I committed to her in October and the design that she's doing for, or has done and will continue to do for the students, it's pricey. And I paid her in full because there was like a 20% discount if I paid in full for the design. So this is multi-thousands of dollars.
The copywriter, I didn't get lucky with. She was a referral from a coach. She was somebody with who I'd gone through programs, and I knew her. And she just wasn't a fit. She just didn't do the job the way that I wanted or the students wanted. And the personality wasn't a match and stuff like that. And so that I felt really responsible because I was trying to support so many students and I felt like I failed in the way that I supported them.
We have a new copywriter on the team for 2021 for this round that starting that, I guess when this episode goes live, it's already started. We're like a week into it. But I feel really good about her, but I interviewed her. I made her do a tryout basically, and then I did a second interview with her. So I learned a lot. So my pivot didn't really have to happen with the program or with the messaging. It had to happen with, for the ability to support as many people that were going through the program.
And that, for me, has been a huge challenge. Like when you listen to the podcasts and they talk about going from solopreneur to CEO or whatever, and I never wanted a team, I was perfectly capable and comfortable doing it myself. I was in the mid, not mid-six figures, I was. Over a 100K by myself, like as a solopreneur. I was like, I don't need a team.
Like I've never had that million-dollar business goal, but it happened to me. Not that I'm at a million dollars revenue, that's not what I'm saying. But like the growth happened to me and I had to quickly go from, I have this all systematized all under control by myself to, I have to understand who I need on a team, how to manage a team. Like I had no intention of being a manager, let alone, did I know how to be a manager?
AL: That’s an entirely different business model. It's entirely different. So question for you. Turn the tables on you.
ML: No, I love it. Please.
AL: While you're growing. And we've talked about this in Voxer, you're, we're always having to make decisions about what kind of life do we want to live? What kind of business will support that life? And I know I've told you, I feel like I'm in an experiment experimental stage with, does scale work for me does team work for me, or do I want to go back to simple solopreneur? Maybe not make as much income, but also have a whole lot less headache.
For you. You literally had to leave money on the table when you close that application pool and then rally to get a team in place to support the people you already had. Do you think that you'll stay on this course? Or is this an experiment for you?
ML: That's yeah, that is all of this as an experiment. Cause I'll talk about my fall now. So I had committed all this money to Shayna, the designer, and then my fall was not great. My fall was not great and it's just like you, it felt really slow. And the only beauty of the way that I do things is I can leave applications open as long as I need to or want to.
I just left applications open. I had fully intended to close them. In December. And I left them open through January and it did make a difference because like the new year energy, I had a few people join in January. Some of them were people that applied way back in October and November. And just at that time, weren't ready to commit.
So because I don't have an open cart and a closed cart and I don't have this time. I do have a time period in the sense that the program starts on a certain date, but because the time for enrollment is so long, I didn't feel as much pressure, but what I did feel pressured about was going to the nine-month Side Hustle.
I went from a six month proven offer that I didn't even have to sell. I didn't even have to launch, people just applied for, a lot of people applied for, to all of a sudden to this nine-month round that I had no idea if people were going to want because it got longer. The price had to go up. Just make sense. And so I was like, are they going to pay this price?
Everything on the market is about shorter and faster. Are people going to want to invest in a longer, more in-depth program? And luckily I'm really happy with my numbers as they stand in now. But if you'd asked me in October, in November, after I had just paid a shit ton of money to a designer and locked in a whole plan, I was not okay.
Like I was freaking out from a numbers standpoint and from an emotional standpoint. So it's so interesting to me. I thought the slow time was going to be the spring. I thought everybody's freaking out right now. I thought it's a crazy, no one knows what tomorrow looks like, but I think you're exactly right. It's people were more reactionary in the spring. Yes. People were like, okay. If I'm going to make this big change, I'm going to make it now.
And I did pivot my message a little bit in the spring I went to, I had a pick my brain panel planned for March. We all moved it to April because like the lockdown happening and the original messaging for this sounds so egotistical when I say it. The original messaging for March was, come chat with a bunch of people who know how to do online business and are making a ton of money. Come pick our brains. But after April, I was like, I switched the messaging for that event to come see how we have hedged our bets. Come see how we have multiple streams of income that we're not as worried about this pandemic because we have, I use this faucet analogy, like this, the world might've shut down this faucet, but we have another faucet over here that we're able to turn up.
And so that was the one adjustment that I made in the spring. And I think it made a big difference.
The mistakes that I made in the fall. We just, I think if you want to call it a mistake, it actually has turned out. It's like a, it's a Bob Ross. It's a happy accident is I ran this challenge in the fall in October.
And it was your Side Hustle Schedule and it was all about finding the time in your schedule to make your Side Hustle happen. And the, where I got this idea is when people join my Facebook group, they answer three questions, have you taken my quiz? What's your license.? And what's the thing that's holding you back? Nine times out of 10 it's time.
So then, well, I could I even address that.
It was day three of the challenge and a good friend of mine. Kim, she's been through Side Hustle. She was in the mastermind. We chat a lot. She was on the live with me. And somebody during the challenge said I'm starting to think time isn’t my biggest objection to starting a Side Hustle. And right there, if you watch the video, my face falls, cause I'm like, Oh fuck.
Like I knew I had an issue. I knew I was talking to people that were not going to buy Side Hustle. Like right there. I was like, okay. So I've just planned, executed a whole challenge, a whole launch because sorry to go back. I felt like I needed to launch for reals this time because the program was nine months in new.
Which maybe I didn't even need to do that, but I felt I needed to do that. So I just planned and executed this entire challenge and this entire launch for the wrong people. So I was like, what are your other objections and obstacles?
Yeah, that's exactly what I did. I turned into the market research mode because I knew I was in the wrong, I was wrong. The position and the people were not matched. So they started saying I don't have an idea yet. And I'm like, okay, Space Holder. That's the point of Space Holder? This is what's going through my head.
And when she put that there was a flood of comments, me too. And I was like, Oh crap. Okay, I'm not talking to the wrong people. I'm talking to people too early in the journey. Not having time was matched for Space Holder people. Side Hustle people. They're like, I'll find the time, whatever like I'm ready for this, I'll figure the time. Okay.
AL: That's exactly right.
ML: So in the launch Space Holder was the bonus. And so I talked to my, the person on my team who does the copy and stuff. And I was like, Hey, we need to up this bonus. We need to promote the crap out of this bonus because all these people don't have the idea yet.
So don't worry. You don't have your idea yet. That's why Space Holder is a bonus and it helped a little bit. But what I did is I down sold Space Holder after. I did. So I went through the entire launch of Side Hustle, had a lot fewer applications than I thought I was going to because I was talking to the wrong people or the right people at the wrong time.
And so then I quickly like quickly sent out a sales sequence for Space Holder to the people. And it was a sequence I'd already written, literally just copied a paste. I didn't rewrite the emails, I didn't do anything. And I got five Space Holder sales and after those Space holder Sales, Two of them ended up coming into Side Hustle after they saw a space holder after they got to work with me.
AL: This is what I love about entrepreneurship. Yeah. So once you go from, and you got me here of I'm doing this to get a sale when I first started I'm doing this to sell a course and then later, Oh, wait. This was successful, but I'm going to have to replicate this if this is going to become a business.
And then once it became a business thinking about I don't want to have one product that my whole life depends on. So I'm going to have to diversify and now they're faucets everywhere. And so when something happens, it's not Oh, that was a bust. It's Oh, okay. So now where do we need need to like, turn the dials, where do I need to tweak things?
It's kind of like a puzzle. You're constantly adjusting to what's happening in the market. Where is your customer in their particular phase of the journey? What's going on in the world that you might need to tap into when you're doing your work? That's something, our course is working now, but memberships are working later.
It's fun. Once you let go of this being a success or failure, and more of this is just we're learning how to win and each new situation, it becomes fun. It's a game.
ML: Yes. I completely agree with that. And I got to this point of, and we've talked about this on Voxer, like growing up a single mom. One of the most formative memories I have is of the washing machine breaking. And my mom saying, how are we going to buy a new washing machine? Do you know what I mean? Because it was like an essential, it wasn't like, it was like the TV broke, like Aww shucks were without a TV, like that would have sucked, but like the washing machine.
And so financial security, financial stability is very deeply rooted in me. And once this business got to a level of stability and security, which for me was like 50K. Like I was not, once I knew holy crap, I can make more money than my mom ever made like that I ever had growing up. I'm okay. I'm okay.
And then a sense of playfulness came in a sense of fun came in. It doesn't mean it's not stressful because 2020 was incredibly stressful. What the listeners don't know, is if you guys follow my personal social media, you might've might know, but Josh, talked about big reactionary in the spring, Josh, I bought a fucking beach house. So we have since let go of the beach house
AL: It was a very exciting opportunity and it felt like a once in a lifetime thing, it was a unique thing.
ML: It was a friend of mine. We had no down payment to get into this. We had a balloon in a couple of years. That's where the down payment came in and it. First, on paper it made 100% sense. Anyone would've taken that bet, like anyone would have taken that opportunity. And then I realized, Oh crap, I'm responsible for this balloon into, in a year and a half that I knew I could have made, but I did not like that hanging over my head.
So we got into that deal in July. And then come October and I'm freaking out, I've paid Shana, this money. And I, my launch is not going like it's supposed to go. And I'm like, I was not okay. Like emotionally, I was so stressed out. And then I didn't want to disappoint this friend of mine, which I ended up doing anyway. Cause I told her, I said, we're going to have to step away from the beach house. And then she was like, I don't know what to say. And I'm like, yeah. I was like, I know, I'm sorry, it's a bummer.
But I actually practiced pretty good boundaries. I was proud of myself. I didn't apologize. I didn't try and backpedal or anything. I was just like, I know it's a bummer, but this is just the best decision for us. So I felt like I handled it pretty well, but. It was still, I felt disappointed in myself. I knew I was putting somebody else. Like, why did I make the stupid decision, this rash, dumb decision, so that was hanging over my head as we know. As the fall was happening or not happening.
AL: I think this drives home such an important point because practically it made all sorts of sense. Monetarily, it made all sorts of sense, but if we can get really tapped into how do we cope with different types of stressors? All sorts of things make sense in my business that would be tied to, you've told me this for years, like Amber, you have to be more consistent. Don't just show up randomly on Facebook, set a time and show up at that time.
I don't respond well to that. It makes me feel resentful and I don't want to do it. And then I don't like my business. So when we start, it's, you're in psychotherapy. If you're a business person, you are learning about yourself all the time. And what you learned is even though it was totally doable and you totally would have made it happen. Having that looming over your head changed how you felt about conducting your business. They gave a different tone, right?
ML: Like you don't respond well to time constraints and I don't respond well to money constraints. Yeah. And I'm sure I know where mine comes from and I'm sure yours has, is rooted somewhere in something.
But I think like I came face to face with my shadow as a person and as a business owner. So many times this year.
AL: Ooh, that's powerful, you're going to have to say more.
ML: Just like being confronted with choices and decisions and sometimes making the right one and sometimes making the wrong one. Or I don't know if it, I don't want to call the beach house like a mistake. I want to call it a learning opportunity. However, I feel like I failed and fucked up. So I feel like I've made a mistake. Not that I learned from something, but I did.
I learned from a lot, I learned from the holy crap like I just had an influx, more sales than I've ever had in my life. What am I going to do? I learned from that. And I also learned from, Oh my God, I've now obligated myself to another huge chunk of money that I don't think is going to happen in time. And even if it did happen in time, I wouldn't like my life, the person I'd have to be, and the business. I'd have to run to make it happen in time.
AL: That's exactly right. That feels if we're going to be doing online, businesses, have more freedom and to have more say, over our lives and not have to be in the box of working for a bureaucracy or some system we disagree with, then we don't want to become exactly the system.
ML: After the challenge flopped what's really cool is I didn't let that just be a fail. I was like, okay. Because usually when you run a challenge let's say you get a hundred people to sign up by day one. You've got 98 people there. They're so pumped. And then by like day three, you've got like 80 people there. And by day five, you've got like 40 people there. I did. I lost five people over the whole challenge.
That's it! My open rates didn't drop. Like the engagement was incredible. So I knew I had something there. It just was in the wrong place at the wrong time. So I'm using it. It's turning into a mini-course. And again, I don't know, by the time this goes live if that mini-course will be being promoted or not yet because we're recording a little bit early, but I didn't let that I didn't say, Oh, that was a waste.
And that's another learning opportunity because a previous me would have been like, all right, that sucked and just let it go. But I was like, Okay. The data, cause I rely on the numbers, and the data shows that this was a success and also just being there and feeling it like there was one girl, she like had a profound impact.
She had lost her mom the year before and going through the challenge helped her prioritize like a specific time with her dad. All right. And it was just like, so emote, not only did the data show that it was a success, but being there and experiencing the changes that these people were going through in five days like that was a success as well.
So I knew there was something here. It just needed to go in a different place.
AL: Where have you decided to put it in your business strategy?
ML: That's a really good question. So I've decided to let go of the mastermind that comes after Side Hustle. It was really hard to hold three different containers for three different people in three different places.
So Space Holder has calls that I show up for Side Hustle has two calls a week, Voxer, Facebook group, like everything that I show up for. And then I had this other group that I was showing up for and giving time and energy to. And what I realized, especially now that Side Hustle is going to nine months, there doesn't at least right now need to be a container after.
Because within Side Hustle, like I've designed it to be like an MBA in online business, there should not, they should not need to take any courses whatsoever after this, at least for a year or two. Like I really believe that they will know everything they need to know about online business from Side Hustle.
So why would there be a container after that? Side Hustle needs to be my top container. With the most effort, the most energy from me the most time from me. So then Side Hustle is now the top of my ladder, Space Holde is the middle of my ladder. And this is going to go with the bottom because. I saw from the experience like this was a perfect leader into Space Holder, not Side Hustle.
So it naturally goes and naturally belongs there.
AL: That's perfect. Yeah.
ML: That is what I'm changing. Mostly in 2021, I'm relying a little bit more on automation. I'm relying a little bit more on a lower price, higher volume offers. But now three, three years into this. Yeah. Three and a half years into this business. Six years into online business. I'm ready for that shift.
I was talking about that with my coach, the other day of I feel a little bit of am I not acting with integrity because I teach starting I, what I really advocate in Side Hustle. And I don't, it's not a mandatory thing, but I really advocate for group programs inside Side Hustle, because you make more money with a smaller audience.
And she was like no, it makes sense that you were now years into this and you're making a shift like, but this is how you started. And I was like, okay, that feels better. But I was worried that switching, my switching to a lower price, higher volume was going to be like an antithesis of what I teach, but it's not, it's an evolution of what I teach.
AL: And it's also, it's preparing people for the next step. So your foundational offer is Side Hustle and Space Holder in this new program are getting people ready for your foundational offer, where they get to work with you in a group program. So it feels like it's just additional layers of service. Not a different model.
ML: Cause I don't know if you remember this. We used to talk about this, but I wanted to start with a membership site and I wanted to call it Thought Leader Therapist for people who wanted to speak and write books, which has, very, very little to do with what Side Hustle is.
So if I had gone up the ladder instead of down the ladder, nothing would have made sense. It would have been all like discombobulated. So starting here and then going, what do they need before this? Okay, now what do they need before this it has so much more cohesion.
AL: Absolutely. And I'm trying to figure out, so for me, my foundational offers step-by-step and that course is getting like you just add an extra month to your course and not adding extra time.
And I'm changing the material to add in more marketing and a little bit more business savvy. My thought is to pull out some of the more intro stuff into a smaller offer. So the very, very bottom, and then that would be an evergreen. Take it as you need it, prepare you for the next level. And then above that is Momentum.
My new mentorship membership program, I still don’t know what the heck we're going to call it. But it's for people who are there, be on having set up their practice, they have the first clients in there. Maybe they even have a full caseload, but they're not making as much money as they want to. And they're working too many hours.
ML: And also the lifestyle piece that is so important to you.
AL: Absolutely. Absolutely. The whole function of the mentorship program is how do we get you working fewer hours and making more money? So how do we get you off insurance panels? How do we get your rate increase? How do we market to the right target audience, to be able to get private pay clients that can pay your fee? And if you want to do stuff that is broad, serve more people, but maybe with fewer steps, then we can talk about our strategy to do that too. But we're just teaching you the basic principles of what to think about. And mostly those principles are, protect the freaking lifestyle that you want to have.
Start there, start with the lifestyle and your values, and then everything else will get sorted out.
ML: I think that just makes so much sense because what you went through in 2020 was a market sophistication, which happens now. Yeah. I'll explain it, which happens naturally because as much as our ego likes to tell us I am not the only online business podcasts that people are listening to, and you're not the only online therapy person that people are following.
We might be their favorites, but we're not the only right. So people are out there Googling, people are out there listening to other things. People are out there expanding their knowledge. And so they are naturally getting more sophisticated.
It happens over time, you, because of the pandemic and everything, like it was forced on you like your market had to sophisticate very quickly. And so what I love about what you're talking about of your new progression is I think it matches this new sophistication because there are still some people maybe out of grad school, or maybe just who are like, just still tiptoeing into online therapy and they can use some of that basic stuff.
But your signature program needs to talk to people who are very familiar with online therapy. They need to do it right. They need to do it well. And they need to make a business out of it. And Momentum talks to those people who are doing it right, are doing it well, have a business out of it, and now want a bigger business, a different lifestyle, a whatever.
AL: What's so funny is, I've had this little plan of breaking things out over the last six months or so. And then the other day I was like, are we just complicating things? Maybe there doesn't need to be that lower, wrong? Because I came from the idea that I had several people telling me they didn't want to buy the course because they didn't want to pay for things in there that they didn't need.
So all the early stuff, which I could have changed in messaging. So I started second-guessing myself like maybe I just need to change messaging and not change the course. And I've been getting all these emails lately about I just don't even know where to start. I'm brand new to this. And I'm like, okay, I hear you universe. I hear you.
ML: Yeah. And where it got hard for me in 2020 was having three, three businesses in my Ascension model or three, three offers in my Ascension model that needed me. Three containers were too many for me. I don't want to take originally Space Holder was supposed to be evergreen. Or was supposed to be completely passive, but I added a call to that. Added a call to that for two reasons.
One, I don't like not knowing my students at all. I don't like knowing if they are getting anything out of the program. I don't know, like not knowing their names or anything like that and what they're working on. So I felt like maybe I needed it needed a little bit of that, but also for conversions as I said, those two Space Holders that I sold off the challenge after one call, they were like, okay, I want Side Hustle.
So it absolutely helps people come up the ladder with me. So I knew I didn't want to take that away from Space Holder. It's too important. And then that's why I had to take a look at the mastermind. And so I'm still gonna have three things on my ladder, but the one that I'm building in is completely passive is completely evergreen.
AL: That's it's still, may I ask you some questions? Do we have time for me to ask you some questions about that? So from a strategy point of view, what would make you decide that you wouldn't put some face time into that lowest tier offer for the same reason that you're putting face time into Space Holder, from a conversion point of view, how do you make that call?
ML: Oh, first is the price point. Space Holder is low enough in the price point that it doesn't need that before. Side Hustle is expensive. They need to know me. They need to trust me. They need to believe that when they come into that program, they're going to get the results.
Space Holder is not expensive. It doesn't even have a payment plan on it because it's not something that even needs to be broken up into two payments. It's really affordable. They don't need as much face time. Also, Space Holder has been selling by itself all year. So I know it converts.
AL: And when you say they don't need as much face time, you don't mean they don't need me there. You mean they don't need me there before they buy.
ML: Right. They don't need as much from me to quote-unquote, I don't like the word convince, but to quote-unquote, make the decision easy for them to buy a Space Holder. They've been buying Space Holder for a year now with nothing before it. Yeah.
But to make the jump from Space Holder to Side Hustle, they need to know me. They need to trust me.
AL: It's so interesting. Cause I think about, I've been exploring codependency as an issue. I might struggle with my coach because when I think about my lower tier offer that would lead them into step-by-step thinking these poor people like don't know anything about online therapy. They need me, I want to be able to offer them a really low price point.
So I'm like, do I need that and show up like once a month, as you are for Space Holder and something before that and Oh geez. Now I'm in three containers again.
ML: Yeah, no, totally. I, that really came up for me. During this past round of Side Hustle, especially with this copywriter failing, I was like, I'll do all your copy.
I tried to come up with another solution. It wasn't satisfactory to the students. So I was like, okay. And then, so it just, I just ended up saying, okay, I'll do it, which is not what I needed to do at that time of year the other, what I haven't mentioned is that Josh was in the field. So from the day after Thanksgiving to December 18th, he was gone.
I'm a single parent for five weeks. We did travel over Christmas, which was a tough decision, but we decided to make it and be as safe as we could. So single parent for five weeks, preparing to board dogs to pack kids to all this stuff and then having all the like 28 people's copy to edit.
AL: Unbelievable.
ML: Yeah. So it was like, that was definitely a codependent decision. And that was just because I couldn't have them be mad at me. I couldn't have them be upset.
AL: And I, yeah, I was talking with my coach about this and she is hardcore about boundaries, so I'm learning a lot from her, but she was talking to me about like you, Amber, set the expectation from the beginning that you're going to go over the top.
So then people do get mad at you when you don't go over the top. But if you set the expectation from the beginning that you're going to stay within the fricking containers that you built, they're probably not going to be mad. And the one that is mad, that's their own stuff and they go, cool.
ML: Yeah. You know what? Kristin, the new copywriter for Side Hustle. She pointed out that it can go all the way back to your sales page. Oh, yeah. The copy that you're writing on your sales page can start a codependent relationship. I was like, Oh shit. So it's so interesting because I never would've considered that an issue for me in relationships or anything before. And then it shows up in my business.
AL: Yeah, I was reading the book for a client for a therapy client. I'm reading “Codependent, Now What?” And I'm reading and I'm like, Oh, this sounds like me and my business. And I brought it up to my coach and she's yeah. Did you not already know? No. I sure didn’t!
ML: To wrap up what are, and this doesn't have to be short. I just mean let's pivot to the last kind of point. What are some things that you want to do differently maybe in 2021 that were either informed by 2020 or maybe not just what are some changes that you're planning on making personally, professionally?
AL: So I'm really working on getting the hours down THAT I'm working per week. And there are a lot of ways that I'm doing that, which I can't talk about totally yet, because I don't know what conversations I'll have with people before this goes out. But I'm cutting my hours back by a lot.
Because I naturally like to do things for people I'm really trying to contain the number of hours that I'm working to contain that impulse of mine until I can get in the habit of giving to people in a way that's helpful for them. And not just, that feels good for me because I'm going over the top and that feed my ego and makes me feel like a good human being. Yeah.
So that's the primary thing that I'm working on. Like how can I help people in a container that's good for them and good for me instead of going over freaking bored? And the reality is that when I go overboard, it's the cognitive distortion for me is that I am helping them and that they need it.
But the reality is that when I go overboard, I enable under-functioning for other people. When I go overboard, then I am communicating that I don't believe that you could do this by yourself. So I think that I just been living in this idea that, if not for me going over the top and they might not get XYZ, which is BS and it doesn't serve them and it doesn't serve me.
ML: Yeah. I totally understand that. I, fewer hours for me is, and it's not, I think it will be a little bit fewer hours like numerically, quantitatively, but what's really going to be different is less and fewer hours face to face.
So if I'm putting in, cause I, I really keep it to 16 hours a week, 16 to 20. If I'm putting in 20 hours a week, a lot less of those are going to be with people. I never consider myself an introvert. Like I, whenever I test, I'm always on the extroverted scale or side of things, but damn if 2020 didn't turn me into an introvert. Like I just don't, I don't want to deal with a lot of people anymore.
The other big thing that I'm making a change on, and I know you'll appreciate this is, and I've talked about this on the podcast a little bit too, is I used to be very anti batching. Like I would time block my schedule Monday is for this Tuesday is for, this is for this.
But the way that my new podcast editor works is she does batches and it was a really hard adjustment for me. Like I felt like I was always getting behind and what I changed and it's working so far in the one month that I've had, but is I cycle synced my batching, so yes, so now I batch before ovulating end of week one or week two.
So I batch before I ovulate so that the estrogen keeps me interested in it.
AL: I had no idea you were into this.
ML: Yeah, you told me about the hormone horoscope app.
AL: That's right. Have you read “Do less,” there's a book called do less by Kate or whatever her name is Kaitlin.
ML: I haven't read it, but I'm familiar with her.
AL: Yeah. She talks about cycle seeking, syncing, seasonal syncing, and she gets into moon stuff too, that I don't understand, but yeah. It's just, it's so nice to have validated what we already know is that in certain stages of the month, we're more productive, certain stages were more reflective and you can put your content in those stages.
ML: Yeah. So when I was trying to batch in my luteal phase after I ovulated, it was like, I was either banging my head against the wall or I was pissing myself off or I just couldn't, I couldn't do it. And I would get behind and all of this stuff. So that's a major change and really what it boils down to the cycle syncing and seeing fewer people is energy management.
That is my biggest goal for 2021. Like the finance, it was such a financial push for a long time. I'm there. I'm where I need to be. I'm happy with that. Letting go with the beach house really helped with that because I didn't have two obligations anymore. I just have the build the house by the time Josh retires. And I'm really happy with that.
Now that the finances are fine, it's energy management.
AL: Yes. I love it. Yeah, it should be a whole other podcast, energy management. If you haven't already discussed.
ML: I would love to do it. And again, I'm putting you on the spot is I think we should do these chit-chats like once a quarter.
AL: Oh, that would be super fun.
ML: I think this is something that just hearing us talk back and forth. I think it's super valuable. And I like keeping, so this is Q1. Like you want to do something for Q2 where we're like, all so we're, in the middle of the year now, how are we doing?
Do you want to do that?
AL: Absolutely. I really love behind the scenes of people's businesses. It helps me so much. So if it's helpful to other people to hear the behind the scenes, like strategy, financial, emotional, energetic, that would be really cool.
ML: Cool. We can get, we can just get the whole year on the calendar.
AL: Cause you know, I have been planning for eight weeks in my calendar with your markers and my washi tape.
ML: Awesome. If you have any, either a reflection or a piece of advice or something that you want the listeners to hear, like what as they're thinking about this, what we've talked about today, like what would be your kind of what do you want to leave everybody with?
AL: If you are trying to do anything well, whether it be growing your therapy practice or growing your online business if you come from a place of service and truly wanting to help, it is going to be successful. You will figure out the how-tos you will get into the right courses like Side Hustle, or you'll listen to the right podcast.
The how-to isn't as hard as the being in the rights space, that information is out there. And then the flip side, which we started talking about is the energy management around them. People who tend to be service-oriented may or may not have trades of codependency that can leave you like energetically, completely depleted, and then burnt out.
And that's not where we want you to be. That's the antithesis of the whole reason that we're doing this.
ML: I'm sure everybody listening always, already follows you, but they're probably a better fit for Momentum. My listeners are, so where should people, if they want to follow up with you after this conversation, where should they go?
AL: I think probably the best place for folks that are interested in Momentum is the Freedom, Flexibility, and Flow Facebook group. Because it's more focused on lifestyle and protecting your hours and thinking about how to run your practice or your business in a way that is aligned with your values and your goals.
So that's probably the best place to go. We don't even have anything on the website yet about Momentum. So if that's something you're interested in, just email me. It's dramberlight@gmail.com.
ML: Perfect. All right. Thanks so much for joining me last minute today because you have freedom, flexibility, and flow in your days and in your life, you saved my ass and I think it was actually really fun. And I think I'm not kidding when I say I want to do this periodically and keep these chit-chats going.
AL: So yeah, I think that would be great.
ML: Cool. Awesome. Thanks so much.
All right guys, wasn't that the most awesome chat with Amber? It was so cool. A, like I kind of love how she flipped it on me and interviewed me a little bit. And I loved it. It started out a little formal, but we quickly found our flow and just started chit-chatting. If this has been valuable for you guys, let me know in the Empathy Rising Facebook group if you enjoyed this kind of behind the scenes talk I think we're going to keep these coming throughout the year.
Let me know what your thoughts are.
We'll be back with another episode next week and until then, keep on rising.
